andyd
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 posted on 23/7/03 at 11:26 AM |
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V8 Powered Middie?
Is anyone using (or planning to use) a V8 lump for their mid-engined beast?
I'm trying to convince a mate of mine that he should do a scratch build (as opposed to buying a true kit) but he says he'd want a V8.
Problem is in a mid config what g/box + axle (drive shafts) could be used for a rover v8? Is this even possible? I know anything is if you put your
mind to it but what I mean is without manufacturing your own setup is there something else that could be used?
Andy
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timf
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| posted on 23/7/03 at 12:30 PM |
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renault transaxle can be used as per the entry level ultima used. adaptor plates are available.
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TheGecko
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| posted on 23/7/03 at 12:53 PM |
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It depends on what your choice of V* is. In the UK I suppose that always means Rover  Here in Oz, a mid-engined V8 is being built with the 4.0
Lexus motor, which are a relatively cheap import motor (as little AU$2,000 - say GBP850). See <this
link> and click on Redback Spyder for some images.
I don't think there's any easy available mid-engined transmission that will bolt straight to the Rover (or any other V8 ). Any tranny
will need (at the very least) some sort of bell-housing afapte.
The obvious choice in the UK is the Renault UN1 as used by countless other mid-engined builders including Lotus, in the Esprit. Some of the FWD only
Audi's also apparently have a quite tough tranmission which is being used by various Countach replica builders in the US withV8's et al in
front of them. Click on <this link> for more info on Audi
Transmision. in mid-engine
Hope this is of some help.
Dominic
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andyd
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 posted on 23/7/03 at 01:32 PM |
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Thanks guys that's given me some nice ideas to give to my mate.
Now you've pointed out the Renault UN1 I've had a surf and found that NF Auto http://www.nfauto.co.uk/index.html have details of what
setups they use in their Foremans.
So it's a UN1, Porsche G50 or maybe the Audi option. NF seem to indicate that Ford drive shafts can be used for either the UN1 or the G50 with
suitable adaptors. Why wouldn't you want to just use the drive shafts that came from that car? Do you think the Ford option goes for the Audi
transaxle too?
Dominic, yeah it'd prolly be a Rover lump but we can get Chevy also just a little more money as they aren't too common over here. The
Rover lump has been used for years and therefore there's more chance of a suitable donor.
All good info, thanks. 
Andy
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timf
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| posted on 23/7/03 at 03:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andyd
Why wouldn't you want to just use the drive shafts that came from that car? Do you think the Ford option goes for the Audi transaxle
too?
first thing that springs to mind is the old kits used a mix of ford front suspension so by using adaptors the rears could be used giving the builders
the same wheel choice and in the case of the renault uni
a much bigger choice
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Rorty
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| posted on 24/7/03 at 07:47 AM |
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Are there any Citroen DS19s still about in the UK? They had pretty meaty transaxles with inboard discs. I remember watching some being crushed, as
nobody wanted the rust buckets.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Noodle
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| posted on 24/7/03 at 08:24 AM |
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quote:
Are there any Citroen DS19s still about in the UK? They had pretty meaty transaxles with inboard discs. I remember watching some being crushed,
as nobody wanted the rust buckets.
Blimey Rorty, that must have been a while ago!
The Citroen transaxle was the one used by Lotus in the Esprit, I don't recall them being terribly strong. Or willing to change gear.
Another option is the <shudder>front-drive</shudder> Subaru's. (Not Justy). The FWD Impreza and old 1800 GL's, GLF's etc
had inline engines.
Someone might remember a recent Italian 'supercar' that used a 2.5 Legacy engine in a mid-engined configuration. The name escapes me. It
was featured 2/3/4 years back in CAR magazine (UK)
ATB
Neil.
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adampage
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| posted on 24/7/03 at 10:24 AM |
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Subaru mid-engined
The car you're thinking of is the OSCA - (search for Subaru OSCA on google) - very interesting.
I have to confess I love the flat-four - My Dad used to work for Subaru, so we had a few as company cars.
There are a few american companies using them as mid-engines (e.g. www.tech3motorsports.com) - often in dune buggy types, but no reason why not in a
road car.
If I ever get bored of the bike engine in my MK GT1 (when I get round to finishing it!) I might try to fit in a Scooby turbo engine with the fwd
box.
Regards,
Adam.
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Noodle
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| posted on 24/7/03 at 12:10 PM |
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The OSCA (link), yes that's the one thanks Adam.
That'll be Subaru at the old Jensen building in West Brom where your dad worked?
I've had a couple of Legacy Turbo's (bought them, they got knicked. This is the West Midlands after all)
The engine's are quite superb, glorious noise and fantastic torque.
However, that's by-the-by, I've yet to see Subaru boxes mounted on anything other than Subaru engines. Someone out there must know?
ATB,
Neil
[Edited on 24/7/03 by Noodle]
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adampage
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| posted on 24/7/03 at 12:27 PM |
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Well remembered!
Noodle,
Spot on - he worked for Jensen (and De Tomaso) aswell - Kelvin Way, West Brom.
Always liked the Flat4 layout in engineering terms - compact, low down (for CoG purposes), and as you say, sounds great.
I think people tend to use the modern engine (turbo-nutter version) with a base-model fwd box - et voila - instant mid-mounted transmission.
Have to agree though - haven't seen any sharing of scooby box with any other engine.
However, I'd like to do it the other way - scooby engine, rwd box, powering a Seven-type.
Cogs are whirring in my head already!
Adam.
[Edited on 24/7/03 by adampage]
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Noodle
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| posted on 24/7/03 at 12:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by adampageHowever, I'd like to do it the other way - scooby engine, rwd box, powering a Seven-type.
I looked into this a couple of years ago. I couldn't find anyone doing a straightforward RWD box conversion, but a guy from NZ sent me some
photo's of a modified Scooby transmission (1800GLF I think) that'd had various parts welded up to make RWD only.
I'd love to know if anyone has managed to hook up a type-9 or similar.
Neil.
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adampage
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| posted on 24/7/03 at 01:26 PM |
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Scary?
Neil,
I'd always wondered if that was possible - welding up half of a transaxle to get 2wd - seems a bit scary to me.
Wouldn't each 'half' of the system be designed to cope with about half of the torque on a regular basis. Reliability must suffer,
must it not?
Adam.
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ijohnston99
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| posted on 24/7/03 at 02:10 PM |
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Check out http://www.constructorscarclub.org.nz/profiles/profile-stinger.html
This uses a N/A Scooby engine and box. I don't think you need to do any welding of the running gear.
Ian
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adampage
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| posted on 24/7/03 at 02:33 PM |
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Aha!
Thanx for that.
Seems like they use the base model fwd version (non-turbo) - therefore no need to weld.
I always thought that seemed a bit dodgy!
If I was starting all over again, I might have a go, but as I've nearly finished a bike-engined car, I don't think I could face changing
it now!
Adam.
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sgraber
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| posted on 24/7/03 at 07:53 PM |
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Regarding the Subaru 2.0 with a FWD Subie Transaxle: I think that is a hot setup.
Does anyone know the dimensions of the engine with FWD transaxle combo? Would be interestedto know if it fits in the engine bay of la Bala...
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Noodle
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| posted on 24/7/03 at 09:24 PM |
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quote:
I don't think you need to do any welding of the running gear.
Welding's only required when you're trying to turn a 4WD box into a front-engine rear-drive configuration. A wholesale move rearwards of
the FWD engine and drive-train by 6ft for a middy of course obviates that problem 
Cheers,
Neil
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MattWatson
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| posted on 25/7/03 at 01:55 AM |
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Anyone have any idea how long a flat4 and 'box are? As well as the length from the front of the engine to the center of the cv joints?
Matt Watson
--------------------------------
VW 1.6L SOHC Turbo Mid engined car
http://members.shaw.ca/wavindustries/
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Rorty
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| posted on 25/7/03 at 07:33 AM |
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Mating engines to gearboxes isn't the black art people make it out to be. It's basic engineering to make an adaptor plate, though with a
plate, usually a new input shaft is required.
I've had great success grafting bellhouses together (with Rover engines I always used the auto bellhouses). Problem with that, is not too many
boxes these days have separate bellhouses.
If you don't mind splitting the box, a plate and longer input shaft are probably the best option.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Simon
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| posted on 25/7/03 at 09:06 AM |
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Andy
This may get you off to a good start!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2424914612&category=43120
ATB
Simon
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MrFluffy
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| posted on 3/8/03 at 10:21 PM |
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cv joints
The reason people use the ford halfshaft adaptors is the stock renault ones are ... a bit poo.. when you go poking a couple of hundred bhp through
them. Granda cv joints can be ordered in extra strong variants cos of the stock car racers using them in the past i believe and are touted as a much
better proposition for a sorted rover or chevy motor.
One thing to note with the renault box is the bellhousing forms the front half of the gearbox and keeps the oil in etc so your adaptor plate wants to
be between the renailt bellhousing and the motor if you can swing it.
Im building a mid engined car with a mid mounted v8 (I STILL havent made up my mind yet, even though i have a sd1 motor in the spares pile now) and a
espace 5speed trans, if that poster still needs dimensions of the box I can measure up one. You can pick up a old espace for buttons, i bought a
2000tse complete for 150 quid a few months ago..
Another alternative route that im going with my custom citroen H van, is to use the transaxle from a renault master turned upside down (because the
master carries its motor behind the transaxle between the drivers), im imagining this transmission to be pretty bombproof as ive had a few masters and
flogged them to death but never had trans problems and ive only killed one cv joint, and that knocked for about two years first. If you go this route,
you may find the gearing a bit low, but as im aiming for 20" wheels to fill the arches out....
toodles!
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