zxrlocost
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| posted on 7/6/07 at 05:20 PM |
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Views/opinions on electric Reverse systems for BECS
hi as above
a supplier may be approached to make a proper electric reverse system.
what would the interest be in these?
Im looking for some feedback of people
theyve obviously got good benefits such as cheaper to buy than some other "manafacturers", much lighter, cheaper to repair if there are
any problems, no transmission loss and therefore more power to the driven wheels, it appears the way forward.
The only down side is perhaps slight battery drain if that
cost isnt available at the moment I appreciate thats a big factor but whats peoples thoughts on the box and if one was available at a fair price going
off what others charge..
I have posted this on behalf of a BECOC member
thanks chris
[Edited on 7/6/07 by zxrlocost]
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smart51
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| posted on 7/6/07 at 05:31 PM |
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It depends how easy it would be to retrofit into my car. There is no slack in the prop, so I don't know how I'd fit one.
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worX
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| posted on 7/6/07 at 05:34 PM |
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I'm not sure I would retro-fit one to my car, but I would definitely of considered it (obviously dependant on price!) during my build...
Steve
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 7/6/07 at 05:42 PM |
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Hi Chris
Good idea!
Rather than reinvent the wheel, my suggestion is to make one as similar as my mate Ed's as possible, as its by far the best electric reverse Ive
seen in action, including ones bought from the usual kit car companies.
Basically it uses a ring gear sandwiched at the engine end with a rubber doughnut (so providing a cush drive) then a Subaru starter motor engaging the
gear when reverse is required thats suspended in a cradle hanging off the gearbox side of the engine, so its auto engaging (no levers to pull etc) and
very reliable. The tricky / expensive bit is getting the right design of ring gear made up, he got his about 5 years ago through Blackbird Motorsport
I think (or they were ones made for Blackbird Motorsport for their 'bird / 'busa Caterhams), but they are no longer in production.
Some pics here,
here, and
here
The big downside to this design though is clearance issues. Using a gear as big as that is with the blade you need to ditch the mechanical water pump
as it gets in the way, so need to blank it off and switch to an electric pump, and I suspect with an R1 it would need to be significantly smaller
again to clear the block
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nitram38
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| posted on 7/6/07 at 05:43 PM |
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In this photo, you can see my reverse starter hanging up. It has yet to be fixed but it works by engaging with a cog that replaces the drive sprocket
securing nut.
I bought the kit from lynx racing for £340. My car is a chain diff, but on a prop driven car, you would need a different
set up.
[img][/img]
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Avoneer
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| posted on 7/6/07 at 05:59 PM |
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I'd be interested, but when planning, you need to take into consideration us with live axles as we can't mount them at the back.
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Bitten hero
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| posted on 7/6/07 at 06:36 PM |
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From the pics it looks exactly as mine will be(although mine is onto the chain diff ) mine has also cost only £65 all in -ring gear made to my
specs,the side plates and the motor(which is a mr2 one as its already got the 2-1 drop ratio built in -no need to pay hundreds of pounds for
it!!!!!!!
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marc n
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| posted on 7/6/07 at 06:36 PM |
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we have one, it works pretty well, you need a big battery though as when you start moving it stalls the engine on a std bike battery, or you have to
rev the engine as you reverse, just putting it into production as we have now tested the prototype, weight saving wise over a quaiffe is quite good
not as much as you would think, but power loss is obviously none ( dont know exactly how much a quaiffe box takes away bhp wise ive heard anything
from 3 to 10 hp quoted )
best regards
marc
please email rather than u2u
direct workshop email ( manned 8am till 6pm )
www.mnrltd.co.uk enquireys to :-
chrismnrltd@btinternet.com
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ReMan
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| posted on 7/6/07 at 07:37 PM |
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I'm loving the idea of killin the 2 birds with one stone.
ie the rubber cush drive and a reverse in one hit.
As far as retrofitting JUST a reverse, I probably would'nt bother, but having run the BEC for 6 months, on and off the track, I certainly would
retrofit a TRT prop or similar to give the drivetrain an easier time.
Changing the prop alone to a TRT would be a straight swap, so, if I could do both, without modding the engine/mountings/pump/ wiring too much
I'd have one tomorrow 
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nitram38
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| posted on 7/6/07 at 07:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Bitten hero
From the pics it looks exactly as mine will be(although mine is onto the chain diff ) mine has also cost only £65 all in -ring gear made to my
specs,the side plates and the motor(which is a mr2 one as its already got the 2-1 drop ratio built in -no need to pay hundreds of pounds for
it!!!!!!!
What I paid for was a brand new high torque low speed geared starter. This means that it uses 50% less current than a normal one. These are made for
starting race cars. Also Important if you have only a bec battery. It also included the cog plus a laser cut mounting bracket and has been proven on
race/road cars.
If you do have access to someone who makes the cog/sprocket for your application, you are laughing.
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mark.s
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| posted on 7/6/07 at 08:27 PM |
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if there light and reliable i'd have 3.....do i get discount for 3?
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road warrior
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| posted on 8/6/07 at 05:50 AM |
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Legend cars and some others run a toothed rear disc and the starter engages the outside edge of the disc.
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cossey
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| posted on 8/6/07 at 07:54 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by marc n
we have one, it works pretty well, you need a big battery though as when you start moving it stalls the engine on a std bike battery, or you have to
rev the engine as you reverse, just putting it into production as we have now tested the prototype, weight saving wise over a quaiffe is quite good
not as much as you would think, but power loss is obviously none ( dont know exactly how much a quaiffe box takes away bhp wise ive heard anything
from 3 to 10 hp quoted )
best regards
marc
the quaife box takes considerably less than 1bhp in straight through mode the 3-10bhp figure that floats around is ludicrous.
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 8/6/07 at 09:16 AM |
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hi thanks for the comments Ive forwarded them to the chap
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gttman
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| posted on 8/6/07 at 03:27 PM |
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I'd like to see one at the diff side of the prop...... I'd be interested in a new prop as well instead of the sierra modded one I have
now.
Andygtt
Please redefine your limits
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andygtt
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| posted on 6/11/07 at 03:07 PM |
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any movement on this? im at the stage were i need to make a decision.
cheers
Andy
please redefine your limits.
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andrew.carwithen
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| posted on 6/11/07 at 05:59 PM |
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I'm in middle of fitting an electric reverse I bought off ebay some time back.
I think it was originally fitted to a ST Locoblade.
I had to make up/modify the bracketry and frame to get it to fit my engine and cradle.
It basically consists of a bike starter motor mounted on a spring loaded sliding carriage.
With the engine running, but in neutral
a cable operated lever (which I've yet to source/make) mounted in the transmission tunnel is used to pull the starter to engage its pinion with a
ring gear sandwiched between adaptor and prop.
It may be necessary to use first gear in order to get the teeth between the two to mesh.
With engine back in neutral,
a momentary switch/push button (ideally incorporated in the lever) is then used to turn the reverse motor via a solenoid/relay (again, which I still
have to wire in.)
Pics below of it...
 
Rescued attachment avon electric reverse.jpg
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andrew.carwithen
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| posted on 6/11/07 at 06:00 PM |
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...and with it in situ (sorry, its not very clear..)
 
Rescued attachment avon electric reverse.jpg2.jpg
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clutch_kick
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| posted on 6/11/07 at 06:20 PM |
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marc, the ones you sell, do they include some sort of speed controller for the motor?
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Eggy
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| posted on 6/11/07 at 06:43 PM |
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I'd definately be interested. I've only driven mine twice so far and both times struggled to get it back in the garage (up-hill)
I've been looking at the ring gear to front sprocket idea (even got the CAD guys at work on it) and I'd like to go TRT just to make life
easier.....
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IndyJohn
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 03:33 PM |
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Hi
has anyone thought of using the motors that the electric winches use?
indyjohn
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 04:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Eggy
I'd definately be interested. I've only driven mine twice so far and both times struggled to get it back in the garage (up-hill)
I've been looking at the ring gear to front sprocket idea (even got the CAD guys at work on it) and I'd like to go TRT just to make life
easier.....
Why not just drive in forwards? Then you can roll out backwards.... thats a free mod you can have on me.
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tks
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 07:57 PM |
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well,
i have experimented with it also.
and the biggest problems for tunnel mounting are size.
i used a Ring gear wich measured some 270mm.
the motor i used was a starter it had 1200Watts
the problem i was facing with it was the fact that its not easy to install because of the allignment fact of 2 gearings.
sow retrofit isn't easy.
i did use a speedcontroller(self build) and the problem with that is the fact that if you loosen the throttle you lower the speed and then the bendix
doesn't like returning. The return of the bendix is many times because the driven wheel drives faster as the starter.
sow with my starter manytimes the thing still was engaged after i loosed the throttle.
i managed with software to isolate that problem quite a bit. but to get things like this perfect is a pain.
the speedcontroller is in my opinion needed for durability of the system.
my car went reverse like a golfcar
the max speed was a walking speed.
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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Eggy
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 08:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dangle_kt
quote:
Originally posted by Eggy
I'd definately be interested. I've only driven mine twice so far and both times struggled to get it back in the garage (up-hill)
I've been looking at the ring gear to front sprocket idea (even got the CAD guys at work on it) and I'd like to go TRT just to make life
easier.....
Why not just drive in forwards? Then you can roll out backwards.... thats a free mod you can have on me.
I should have explained that it's also to do with lack of turning access too
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Crazy Eddie
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 10:04 PM |
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I would be very interested in this as I'm taking out my Westfield Reverse box over the winter and fitting a TRT prop.
(I was considering taking a brolly with me on journeys and pushing myself back if needs be )
www.EdwardsSchoolOfMotoring.co.uk
For online shopping that earns you money : Ei42.com
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