The Great Fandango
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 06:02 PM |
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Clutch... I've had as much as I can take
Just when I thought all was right I actually took the car down of its stands today, wheeled it out into the sunshine and made preparations for its
first self-propelled session since the clutch went a good while back (some may recall I bought a Barnett plate kit last week from PDQ?)
Before starting up the first thing I noticed was that the cable needed some MAJOR adjustment. I put this down to the fact that the plates are now a
lot thicker than the worn ones.
Adjusted so that I had about 8mm of lever pull in the clutch (thought that wasn't very much, used to pull a good 15-20mm)
Started her up.
Clutch pedal down
Engaged first gear
Brought clutch pedal up and...
Nothing!
I even took the clutch cable off the system to see if this was pulling. Still nothnig happened!
Is there such a thing as putting too much oil over the plates upon assembly? I did give 'em a fair old soak.
Failing that I might have bought the wrong clutch kit? That's all that I can think of right now... the plates are too wide for the stack width
and as a result the pressure plate is already turned through a significant portion of its travel.
To be honest guys, I'm getting down about the whole thing and thinking about selling up for a CEC once sorted.
On a more positive note, I met Malcolm from Yorkshire engines today. Top chap and some lovely engines just waiting to be mated up to suitable cars.
For anyone who has said he's based in York, you need a slap! He's up in the Leyburn / Bedale area which is 1h30m from Leeds/York.
He Who Dies With The Most Toys Dies The Happiest
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ReMan
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 07:04 PM |
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Sorry, but it sounds like you,ve put it back together wrong?
I think you would have noticed or not been able to fit it if it was the wrong kit
No you cant put too much oil on it, its a wet clutch
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 07:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
No you cant put too much oil on it, its a wet clutch
But you CAN put the WRONG oil in it.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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BenB
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 08:41 PM |
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But to lose 100% transmission something is wrong....
When I did my BEC clutch I managed to jam the clutch basket slightly so it would disengage the clutch but then the springs weren't strong enough
to un-jam the basket.... That resulted in 100% disengagement...
Then again, my clutch pedal was very stiff as a result and I was just being ham-fisted (or should that be ham-footed)...
Did you compare the total thickness of the clutch plates before and after? You might not have enough plates in there....
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The Great Fandango
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 08:45 PM |
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The oil was Silkolene Pro 4 Plus as recommended by a few motorbike shops.
The plates all fitted perfectly... put the small friction in first, followed by a steel, then a normal friction plate, then a steel etc. etc.
Finally, the pressure went on perfectly but does stick out of the beasket just a little more than when it came off with the old clutch.
Even uprated the springs with Barnett springs so the whole thing is being held nice'n'tight together.
Scratch of head
[Edited on 4/11/07 by The Great Fandango]
He Who Dies With The Most Toys Dies The Happiest
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yorkshire-engines
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 09:24 PM |
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CLUTCH
KYLE RING ME TOMORROW
CHEERS MALC 07960011585
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The Great Fandango
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 09:44 PM |
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With a set of vernier calipers, I measured the worn clutch assembly thickness to be 42.9mm
The haynes manual states 43.1-43.9
The thickness of the new Barnett clutch came in at 43.9 dry (I don't know if the oil makes the cork/kevlar expand and I haven't measured
since the soak).
Malcolm, just for your peace of mind I must point out this isn't the clutch you sold me today, although I expect if I can't sort out my
troubles I'll be slippping that one in to see if it solves the problem.
I'll call you tomorrow if you think you might have some pointers.
PS: It was nice to meet you today.
He Who Dies With The Most Toys Dies The Happiest
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BenB
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 10:42 PM |
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The thickness is okay then!! I wouldn't worry about the oil. It might make it slip a little but not enough to remove all drive!!
Did you have to remove the clutch basket? Is it properly re-engaged? On the ST its a really PITA to re-engage and unless you do you get no
drive.....
Good luck!! You'll probably look back when you find out what it is and go DOH!!!!!!!!!
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Bob C
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 10:45 PM |
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Fazer - ain't that the R1's brother - the R1 is well known for clutch sticking open if you pull the cable too far - well documented on
richard miles famous website.
Bob
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The Great Fandango
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 11:05 PM |
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Thanks for that BobC,
Nice try but it isn't the problem stated on Richard Mile's website (or at least I'm 99% sure it isn't).
I'll check next weekend (what fun working away from home Monday to Friday is!)
He Who Dies With The Most Toys Dies The Happiest
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chrisf
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| posted on 5/11/07 at 02:09 PM |
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Knowing nothing about the fazer, I'm curious if it has an anti jutter spring in the assembly? My blade does (did), and it caused the same
problem you described. Like you, I spent ages measuring everyting, filling/draining oil, etc--only to find it didn't work.
On my engine, the anti jutter spring was lodging against a clutch plate during install. I eventually removed the spring and just ran a normal size
clutch plate and the problem was solved.
Of course, this means nothing to you if the fazzer does not run the anti-jutter spring...
--Chris
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 6/11/07 at 07:20 PM |
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Has it worked previously? One thing that springs to mind which could be the simplest fix of all if you aren't used to driving a BEC or riding a
bike - a lot of the time when you're stationary with the engine running and you dip the clutch and select first gear, the lever moves but you
don't actually engage a gear because the dogs aren't aligned. If you bring the clutch up again then back down, it will spin all the dogs
and the gear will engage. I assume its not this?!
Alternatively could this actually be a gearbox / linkage issue giving the impression of being in gear when in fact you aren't? Try (when the
engine isnt running obviously!) disconnecting the prop and spining the output flange by hand whilst trying to select gears. You should be able to go
up and down the box doing this, obviously the output shaft will only spin when in neutral and should lock up in each gear due to the resistance of the
stationary engine.
Chris
[Edited on 6/11/07 by ChrisGamlin]
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chockymonster
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 09:10 AM |
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From what you've described I'm with Chris on this one.
There are a number of times that I've thought the car was in gear when it wasn't, my linkage was too tight and caused issues with gear
changes.
PLEASE NOTE - Responses on Forum Threads may contain Sarcasm and may not be suitable for the hard of Thinking.
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The Great Fandango
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| posted on 11/11/07 at 06:18 PM |
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At last!...
Have just arrived home from a session at the garage tonight.
Problem solved.
From what I could tell, it was a problem which Malcolm had suggested. I have re-fitted the pressure plate in the wrong rotation (ie. there are 5
possible ways you can bolt the thing back on and only one of them is correct).
As one of you described in this thread, indeed it's a "D'oh!" moment!
Thanks to all that offered advice. It's good to know the gearbox isn't knackered and that I'm now ready for another trackday.
Any trackdays going this side of Christmas for reasonable money?
PS: Those barnett clutch plates and springs really give the clutch a car-type feel. Very positive.
Cheers once again.
[Edited on 11/11/07 by The Great Fandango]
He Who Dies With The Most Toys Dies The Happiest
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The Great Fandango
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| posted on 12/11/07 at 02:00 PM |
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By the way...
An important finding to note for anyone running a Fazer 1000:-
(i)
The clutch cover and size of clutch (both basket and plates) are in fact different between the R1 and Fazer (contrary to popular belief and even
though the main engine casting is the same).
The R1's clutch friction area is significantly chunkier, and looks like it can take a lot more abuse.
(ii)
The friction plates you buy for a Fazer 1000 appear to be identical to an R6 (including the basket mechanism). The only thing I could see that was
different between the R6 and Fazer was the pressure plate bearing 'hook thingy'
He Who Dies With The Most Toys Dies The Happiest
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tks
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| posted on 12/11/07 at 05:13 PM |
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could you mount an R1 clutch (maybe incl. basket) to an Fazer install??
or don't match splines etc.??
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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Kriss
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| posted on 13/11/07 at 01:42 PM |
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great to hear you sorted it with out much disapointment and cost. Also good to hear you comments on the R! clutch (hopefully the engine I am going
for)
As for track day my buddies and I are doing Brands Thursday, £80 for 3 hours.
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