Alez
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 posted on 23/10/03 at 01:25 PM |
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Changing gears (up) without using the clutch??
Hi All,
I just saw this in the Fisher Sportscars website, regarding the Fisher Fury Fireblade: "There is no need to use the clutch on up changes, just
lift off and snap change."
Do you guys do that at all??? Is it something I'd like to do???
Cheers,
Alex
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rell
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| posted on 23/10/03 at 01:35 PM |
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yes i did this all the time in my XR3 right up untill i needed a new gear box
you can change gear just as fast with the clutch anyway
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benedict
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| posted on 23/10/03 at 01:36 PM |
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I certainly do it all the time, particularly when "going for it".
When you're about to change gear, just put some light pressure on the gearchange in the change-up direction. Then to change up just lift off the
throttle for a tiny amount of time (before flooring it again) and it will slot fantastically quickly into the next gear up.
It's certainly the fastest gearchange I've ever used/had/done in a car
Cheers,
Ben
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benedict
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| posted on 23/10/03 at 01:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rell
yes i did this all the time in my XR3 right up untill i needed a new gear box
Presumably though that had a H-pattern synchro box not a
sequential dog box like on a BEC. I think with a car engine it probably is quicker or as quick with using the clutch but with a bike engine it's
a different kettle of worms.
Cheers,
Ben
[Edited on 23/10/03 by benedict]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 23/10/03 at 02:12 PM |
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Perhaps this link will help...
Hewland
This is talking about sequential boxes in a racing car, but the internal mechanism is much the same as on a bike.
I've done this on a bike going up the gears, but I really don't fancy doing it on the way down!
DJ
[Edited on 23/10/03 by David Jenkins]
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 23/10/03 at 03:56 PM |
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alex, the clutch is totaly redundent on up changes, just ease of the throttle n pull.
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Jasper
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| posted on 23/10/03 at 04:21 PM |
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And man it feels sooooo good - even my dad's getting the hang of it - now just got to get him to heal and toe on the way down or I'll be
looking at another gearbox again!
BTW - last track day I did there was a Megabusa with a turbo charger (beautifully installed) AND Nitros - he is either mad or has very large kahones
(Alez - please help with the spelling there).....
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benedict
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| posted on 23/10/03 at 05:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
just ease of the throttle n pull.
or push - if like me you have the gear lever ar$e-about-face to everybody else
[Edited on 23/10/03 by benedict]
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 23/10/03 at 06:30 PM |
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Having a more natural feeling (for me anyway) pull-to-go-up gearchange, I dread ever being offered a drive in a BEC with a push-to-go-up change, I bet
within 3 laps I would have buzzed the engine!
Regarding clutchless upchanges, yep I do it when I think about it, although natural reaction is still to plant the left foot to use the clutch.
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benedict
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 10:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
Having a more natural feeling (for me anyway) pull-to-go-up gearchange, I dread ever being offered a drive in a BEC with a push-to-go-up change, I bet
within 3 laps I would have buzzed the engine!
I think you're lucky (sensible!) in that respect in that it's extreeeemly
unlikely (In my experience) that you're likely to come accross a car, other than mine(!), that's push to change up. IIRC pretty much all
seq boxes for cars, whatever the engine, are pull-up.
I chose the opposite as it seemed more natural to me at the time, though in hindsight wish I'd done it the normal way 'cos I'm
likely to buzz an engine in the manner you describe if I ever drive a different seq-shift car.
I could change it in my car and "re-train" myself, but I fear I would probably need a good supply of engines standing by while I
got used to it
Cheers,
Ben
PS
Chris - am I dreaming/confused (very likely) or was it you who used a westfield fit carbon(?) dash on an ST scuttle???
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MK9R
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 11:00 AM |
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I've gone the push to go up root as it seemed more logical. Plus i reckon it feels easier/quicker to go down a few gears using your fingers to
pull rather than pushing using your arm.
My cars not on the road yet, so WTF do i know
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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benedict
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 11:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
I've gone the push to go up root
Wow!!! another similarly warped individual
Well that's now doubled the number of push-to-go-up cars I know of ....... to 2
Maybe I'm not so wierd afer all.
Cheers,
Ben
[Edited on 24/10/03 by benedict]
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MK9R
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 11:27 AM |
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you can let me have a go in yours then now to get some practice in before mine is finished!!
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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Mk-Ninja
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 11:29 AM |
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A mate of mine has a fury thing and hes just changed his to push for up because his gear change on his Audi works that way, so I dont think it can be
as unusual as you think, the only thing is now I dont know which way to do mine because Im sure we will drive each others cars.
Gordon
I'm sure I've got one, just don't know where I've put it
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 11:32 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by benedict
I chose the opposite as it seemed more natural to me at the time, though in hindsight wish I'd done it the normal way 'cos I'm
likely to buzz an engine in the manner you describe if I ever drive a different seq-shift car.
I could change it in my car and "re-train" myself, but I fear I would probably need a good supply of engines standing by while I
got used to it
How about changing it around, and fitting a rev limiter? 
David
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benedict
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 11:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
How about changing it around, and fitting a rev limiter?
'cos when you're doing 12500rpm and you change down instead of up, a
rev-limiter isn't going to help much!!!
Cheers,
Ben
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 11:52 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by benedict
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
How about changing it around, and fitting a rev limiter?
'cos when you're doing 12500rpm and you change down instead of up, a
rev-limiter isn't going to help much!!!
Cheers,
Ben
Good point!
I was thinking about stopping the engine driving itself to destruction, but that doesn't stop the car's momentum spinning the engine to
pieces...
DJ
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 11:53 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by benedict
Chris - am I dreaming/confused (very likely) or was it you who used a westfield fit carbon(?) dash on an ST scuttle???
Yep it was me, I fitted one of the Plays Kool Westfield dashes to my ST scuttle, fits fine as it its the same width and height is no problem as its a
large square shape which you shape yourself to the profile of the scuttle top. It also tidies up the sides nicely as it is shaped to cover up the
scuttle all the way down to the side chassis rails, so hides (in my case) some rather unsightly ST fibreglassingon that area of the scuttle.
regarding the gear changing, I know Ian Gray does (did?) usually fit them as a push-to-go-up, with the logic that you push forward to go forwards
faster, and pull back to slow the car down, but to me when you are accelerating and being pushed backwards into your seat, its natural to pull back,
and when you are braking and being flung forwards, you push forwards.
Some semi-auto cars use a push-to-go-up tho, such as the Smart.
[Edited on 24/10/03 by ChrisGamlin]
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Alez
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 12:07 PM |
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Cheers guys!
Good stuff, I thought it may be OK for up shifts and actually I used to do it all the time with my motorbikes (even down shift sometimes, I have to
admit).
Pulling for gear up feels more natural to me as well: When you do up shift you are usually accelerating, so the new gear will pull your body if you
know what I mean (excuse my English). When you do down shift you are usually deccelerating, so when you release the clutch your body with be pushed
forward.
Jasper, pronunciation probably the same, spelled "COJONES"
Cheers,
Alex
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Alez
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 12:09 PM |
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David,
Excellent article about gear changing, really.
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benedict
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 12:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
Yep it was me, I fitted one of the Plays Kool Westfield dashes to my ST scuttle, fits fine as it its the same width and height is no problem as its a
large square shape which you shape yourself to the profile of the scuttle top.
cheers - I'm looking at putting a new dash on as
I've cracked mine in a couple of places including where I'd mounted the choke (now relocated to the s/colm mount behind the dash).
What's the playskool one like quality/value wise and is it wet-lay or pre-preg?
I was thinking about the fluke motorsport one which is pre
preg - though I notice that I've now missed the £56 offer they had on!!! 
quote:
regarding the gear changing, I know Ian Gray does (did?) usually fit them as a push-to-go-up
<snip>
Some semi-auto cars use a push-to-go-up tho, such as the Smart.
I didn't know that - excellent I'm not such a wierdo after-all
Cheers,
Ben
Edit:
PS if you do go to the fluke-motorsport website then check out a non-existant link on their site
such as this one and sit and read the error message that writes out.
Fantastic
[Edited on 24/10/03 by benedict]
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Simon
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 12:29 PM |
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With a bike engine, you should be able to go up and down the box without the clutch - though down will take a bit more practice (NOTE - most bike
manufacturers say in their owners manuals that the g/box isn't designed for clutchless changes).
For those of who are really keen to go up the box asap, get an electronic cut out fitted - it saves closing the throttle, just cuts a couple of
sparks!!
ATB
Simon
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 12:53 PM |
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Ben, the Fluke one is probably better quality carbon (pre-preg) but it doesnt have the same shape as the Plays-Kool one, it just does straight across
and so leaves the sides of the scuttle unfinished, if thats a concern to you.
Chris
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Jasper
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 01:06 PM |
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Or buy a piece of carbon and make you're own!
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 01:23 PM |
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Doesnt have a rolled lower edge if you do that - SVA issues if you havent already passed
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