carcentric
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| posted on 27/11/03 at 06:55 PM |
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Possible mid-drivetrain?
I was wondering how it might work to take the engine and transaxle from a Porsche 944 and use them without the torque tube in a mid-engine car.
For non-Porschephiles:
1) the engine is an inline, water-cooled 4-cylinder of 2.5, 2.7, or 3.0 liter displacement and it's leaned over for a low profile
2) the transaxle is located behind the rear axle (clutch is in the front of the car, on the engine)
3) in the 944, the engine and transaxle are connected by a rigid torque tube, but this might be eliminated by use of a custom adapter to connect the
engine directly to the transaxle
What would the drawbacks be?
M D "Doc" Nugent
http://www.carcentric.com
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kb58
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| posted on 27/11/03 at 07:12 PM |
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Why not just a Honda or Toyota FWD lump? Depends where you want to be spending your time, on the chassis or body, or the drivetrain. I chose using a
FWD lump so I wouldn't be wasting time reinventing something. JMHO.
As far as drawbacks for the Porsche, it's old yet I'm guessing parts are still expensive. What power do they put out? With newer engines
these days putting out nearly 100hp/liter, it temping to choose a newer one and be done with it, rather then building up an old one. If you get the
Porsche engine "cheap", then spend $$$$ making it right... well. It's the time and money balance. OTOH, if you already have an
old Porsche you're kind of set I guess.
[Edited on 27/11/03 by kb58]
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Noodle
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| posted on 27/11/03 at 09:50 PM |
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The last time I looked at a 924/944/968 transaxle I seem to remember them being pretty long. Removing the torque tube and bolting up directly would
cause quite a length issue.
This is a not-disimilar thought process to someone who posted recently about bolting some bike engine directly up to a Sierra diff (Mid engine/inline)
Only with a bike engine, you'd save yourself 100kg+ (reverse gears are for wimps  )
'Spose to do it cheaply, you'd use an Alfa 75/Milano.
Cheers,
Neil.
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MikeR
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| posted on 28/11/03 at 12:15 AM |
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I've been thinking along similar lines except just using the porsche transaxle mated to something nice, light, meaty and non porsche (ford 2.5v6
anyone?)
Of course thinking is all i've been doing, got a locost to finish first.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 28/11/03 at 01:02 AM |
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Agree...
not that I know much about Porsche engine's. However, I understand the Porsche unit's are very torquey which I guess compromises the lack
of bhp compared to todays faster more high power unit's. I guess it's what ever floats your boat regarding individual driving style - IMHO
I would go for a newer lighter design engine.
JMHO -
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gatorroy
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| posted on 1/12/03 at 04:28 PM |
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an alternative ?
What about Audi ? they have a selection of engines, up to & including a v-8 with 440 (advert. ) hp. The transaxle is used by a number of GT-40
& Lambo replica builders behind US small block v-8s ( chevy 327+ & ford 302 + )
Here's a link with some info on audi transaxles
http://elektro.cmhnet.org/%7Eaudi/01e/
HTH
roy
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violentblue
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| posted on 22/12/03 at 05:12 PM |
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Keep in mind that the porsche 944 gearbox is the same as the gearbox from an Audi 5000. you'll definatly pay more for the porsche unit from a
wrecking yard, despite the fact they have the same part number.
the audi 5 cyl 20v unit would be comparable in length to the porsche unit, Or I'm told it is possible (I suspect that it is wityh great
difficulty) to bolt up a VW 16v engine to the 5000 gearbox.
My intention for a mid engined chassis is to use the 5000/16v combo, if it is too much difficulty toi fit together I'll use a vw fox box, they
are much weaker but also cheaper to replace.
a few pics of my other projects
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Alan B
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| posted on 22/12/03 at 05:32 PM |
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Hey...two first time posters in one thread....
Welcome guys....Please keep visiting
This is the nearest I know to the center(re) of the home-built middy universe....
Thanks Chris W. for making it happen..
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Spottty
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| posted on 22/12/03 at 05:52 PM |
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Well I have a crazy idea for a mid engine car.
I am thinking of using a Volvo Turbo 5 cyl. Yaya, its a Volvo but at stock they put out 222hp and with a new ECU and exhuast they hit about 275hp. I
think it would be great for alittle 2 seater!
Anyone thought of this before?
Best thing to do for a build....
Ditch the wife! 
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violentblue
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| posted on 22/12/03 at 06:21 PM |
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I've been following your build (and others for some time now)
I futtered around the outskirts of the locost 7 community for quite a while, wanting to build my own mid engined car, the 7 groups were usefull for
info, but it wasn't directed at what I was wanting to do, so its nice to have found a forum that is much more in line with what I'm
thinking.
I've been around the VW forums for quite a while, as I'm a certifiable VW nut, thus My mid engined project will be based primarily on
components from the VW family (vw, audi, porsche)
But it will have to stay in planning stages untill spring when I'll have my '54 beetle (sporting all porsche running gear) will be
finished and on the road. Unfortuatly my garage is not large enough to fit 2 projects and my wife's car.
a few pics of my other projects
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robinbastd
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| posted on 22/12/03 at 09:16 PM |
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Well violentblue,scrap your "very rusty" VW and get the missus to park outside and you'll have plenty of room for your middy.
Ian
Only a dead fish swims with the tide.
http://smuttygifts.com/
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cymtriks
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| posted on 23/12/03 at 09:21 AM |
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VW transaxles
I can't see why an Audi box should be hard to fit to a VW engine. The Audi and VW engine ranges overlap, i.e. some are pretty much identical.
The Audi box is a lot cheaper than the Porsche G50. It is also becoming more and more common than the Renault box as Renaults longitudinal transaxle
drifts into the past and Audi keep persevering with this layout.
A word of warning. The Audi box is considered to be less strong than the alternatives. It depends on who you believe but some say 250 bhp is the limit
while others say it can take up to 450 bhp. As Audi and Porsche don't put anything much over 3 litres through this box this might be its
limit.
Try the lambolounge website. Aimed at Diablo replicas. Lots of engine and gearbox info.
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MattWatson
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| posted on 28/12/03 at 08:52 PM |
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VW engines will bolt up to 90% of Audi transaxles with no modification required. In fact, the 1.8t/1.8 engines are identical, the 2.0s are identical.
If you want to see which transmissions will work, search the forums of www.vwvortex.com.
FYI, the heads for ALL 4 cylendar volkswagons are almost identical. All 8v/16v are, and the only difference between the 16v/8v and the 20v is three
oil drain holes which are not an issue if you plug them.
Matt Watson
--------------------------------
VW 1.6L SOHC Turbo Mid engined car
http://members.shaw.ca/wavindustries/
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GTAddict
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| posted on 4/1/04 at 12:03 AM |
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Bigger VAG lumps...
Do the 'boxes fitted to the larger capacity cars (V6, V6 Bitrubo, V8) differ that much from the four cylinder 'boxes?
(Edit: The Getrag 815 6-speed box comes in two main flavours- 2WD and 4WD. 2WD handles 200lbft, and the 4WD handles 300. All this from the Getrag
website, bleh.)
How much of an issue is there in removing the rear takeoff off the quattro 'boxes?
(Edit: I'd still like to know the answer to this... could I chop and change tailstocks from 2WD to 4WD boxes?)
Mark.
[Edited on 4/1/04 by GTAddict]
[Edited on 4/1/04 by GTAddict]
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