http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=19528
frickin krouts! peeps will just have to get down the scrappy more swiftly!
Typical - interfering politicians trying to get us to switch to "greener" cars!! They tend to forget about the overall effect when it comes
to so called green issues though dont they - what with the amount of energy that goes into producing a new car far outweighing the extra fuel usage
from driving a slightly less eficient car!!
So will we all be using 9 year old donor cars in a few years time then??
just another example of this bl@@dy goverment trying to create more problems, to give a grant of 2500euros, i bet you only get that if you buy a new
car???? what ?? with the state of this economy!!! don,t make me laugh
with the way things are for people,s finances they ( the goverment) should be encouraging keeping your old car for longer as long as it meets
emissions etc which the MOT is supposed to enforce.
its just another way to create higher revenue/taxes for the goverment, IMO.
Do they think we are so blind???
i,ll get my coat now
i hate to sound cynical, but its yet another scam to show how green the government is in order to win votes...
@rsehole politicians.
quote:
Originally posted by A1
i hate to sound cynical, but its yet another scam to show how green the government is in order to win votes...
@rsehole politicians.
quote:
Originally posted by handyandy
quote:
Originally posted by A1
i hate to sound cynical, but its yet another scam to show how green the government is in order to win votes...
@rsehole politicians.
totally agree,
and yet they think we,re too blind to see through them??????
andy
I don't see what's wrong with this.
The government is desperately trying to prop up an ailing economy.
They see a way to help the car industry, get money moving and cut carbon emissions at the same time.
They sponsor drivers (i.e. pay you €2500 ) to change your >9yr old car and to help you buy a new more energy efficient one.
If they implement that the scrappies will be FULL of donors very soon.
I must have missed the downside?
How can this be Greener....
Surely the cost of <elting Down old car / Producing New Car / Transporting New car etc. Will cost more money & Carbon than running that old
car for a couple more years.
It does sound very like an incentive to buy a new car & help the manufacturers out of a hole rather than a real green policy.
As already said what person running a 9 year old car is in a position to buy a new one even with a couple of grand put in by the government? There may
I suppose some trade in folk selling their old motor for a decent price to someone who's going to buy a new car anyway & they buy an 8 year
old car to run for a year & sell for a profit next year!
The problem now is that the most PLC companies make money buy every increasing thier turnover.
Unfortunately there comes a time when the maket is full and we have most of what we need.
So we in the S**t .
These moves will only delay it.
Our current greed (me included) is the driving force.
Who would not want big flash car, big house and a 1/2 million £ pension.
Just part of living in the 21st century.
As for the donars. won't we be able to buy them back off the dealers/scappies as parts.
[Edited on 17/3/09 by rf900rush]
quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
what with the amount of energy that goes into producing a new car far outweighing the extra fuel usage from driving a slightly less eficient car!!
The aims are laudible but the reality is somewhat differant. The motor industry is one of those the goverment wish it could do without but needs. It creates billions in tax from production to use of vehicles but has issues with the enviroment and congestion. The simple fact is the economy is driven by consumption and cars are a big hit so by doing this they hope confidence will grow, throw in the green issue to stop tree huggers complaining and it might help car sales. The reality will be some unscrupulose people will make huge sums out of this, it will further depress the used car market and wipe thousands off used cars making people feel even poorer as their car worth £5k is suddenly only worth £2k.
9 years does not sound so old for a vehicle to me. Even 9 years ago we had cats and emmisions to pass. Maybe 15 years would be a better age?? It does seem that the second hand car market may get skewed- some cars of dubious manufacturing are scrappers at that age and may suddenly aquire a new, higher(false) value.
that new car will lose the government grant just leaving the showroom
buying new cars is such a huge waste of money
So the idea is to encourage people rush out by giving tax payers money as an incentive to get a loan to pay for their new car they didn't really
need?
or where else are folk expected to get the rest of the money in these cash strapped times?? More debt...yip just what we need to sort the credit
crunch, who thought of this?!
[Edited on 17/3/09 by Mr Whippy]
Its all pretty academic, with what the Goverment wants to do, and whats possible. I work in Furnaces. This year I've seen around a half dozen
metal recycling plants close.
So it doesn't really matter if they want to scrap them or not, because there isn't anywhere to process them in the UK. Most of the stuff
goes abroad now. So shipping scrap cars to Europe.... hardly reducing the carbon footprint.
But once everyone has a new car, no one will buy another one until their car gets to that age again so they can get another grant...
Its a short term burst thing for the car manufacturors that will have little effect long term...
The government needs to stop meddaling in everyones lives and spend more time playing with each others balls instead!
This happened in Greece ages and ages ago when Unleaded petrol was introduced. Back in Greece there are still so many cars running on Leaded petrol.
Back then was the whole lot.
Anyway. The age of the car was not of importance.
Meaning, Instead of breaking my clio to make some money back from the loss, if i could drive it there, i would get 1000 euros towards a new car not
200 that i could sell it.
the problem is that old cars here are so cheap that instead of selling it you should scrap it to get more money out of it. Obviously you need to get a
new car which means you need to have loads of money and at this time with all this unemployment isn't very good.
[Edited on 17/3/09 by l0rd]
Time to open up a scrap yard me thinks!
And buy a furnace too 
I hate to fly in the face of public opinion, but I think this is an excellent idea! It is not about going green, that is just window dressing. It's about selling new cars. More new car sales=more car workers employed=more car workers with money in their pockets=boost to the economy. It might even help residuals. New car buying is for suckers, but I'm happy for them to buy new cars and boost the economy for us all. Lets face it, it needs it!
I am sure it's just some poor attempt to make the public think they are actually doining somthing instead of sitting on the fat cat backsides
!!!!
Remember, governments get voted out not in !!!!
I think the calculation runs like this to break even on energy use when swapping from an old car to a new one:
Average car is apparently= 61%steel,11%iron,7%aly, 2% copper, 3%glass,rest plastic/rubber - average energy to create it using current recylcing levels
is 100.4million BTU (30MW hours). 0r 31000 BTU per pound weight.
This equates to a petrol equivalent of 666 gallons uk
So the difference between the energy you use to keep an old car going, and that used to run a new one has to equal 666 gallons of fuel.
If you old car does 30mpg and your new one 45 (say, actual averaged mpgs) the break even is 59000 miles.
At 30mpgold/40 new 80000miles
At 30 mpgold/34.5 new = 150000miles this is the average expected life for a new car
At 30 mpg old/33 new (government figure of 10% to be 'worthwhile) - 220000 miles
There are other aspects to keeping the old one going too - you haven't dug a big hole in the ground for the portion of the metals thats
new(good), but also you haven't created a job for someone(bad)
Make your own decision on what's best!
Regards
Hugh
How difficult is it to register an old car in Germany?
I have a couple that are worth much less than 2500euro.
Sounds like an opportunity to me.
Matt
A lot of this debt problem is due to people taking out loans to buy new cars in the first place, that’s why sales had originally been that high and
why you now see second hand cars being sold for peanuts.
Why would the government encouraging the same thing be the solution to the problem?
Also given how many cars on the road are imported and how few British car companies there are, really it means simply more money and work abroad and
not here
Really it’s a totally mental idea
[Edited on 17/3/09 by Mr Whippy]
On one of the science programs on Radio4 they also confirmed that it doesn't take long for a new car's increased efficiency to off-set the
carbon of it's production over an older car.
Although I don't like the scheme above for it's potential effect of depriving us of donors. I have to say that if you combine the government
deal with this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7180396.stm
Then you can have a new car for very little money.
Okay, personally I'd rather have an old car than a Tata but a lot of people aren't so bothered about that they drive. Hence the amount of
cr@p cars still produced!!!
Cheers,
James
This pistonheads thread is right about screwing garages to.
- Because all these new cars will not require tyres/servicing/moting for ages.
In summary, its great for car manufactours. Toss for everyone else, including the eviroment.
Daniel
Intrestingly enough - 9 Year takes us to the point where they changed the Tax bands (introduced).
Any vehicle pre 2001 was & still is £180 tax (or there abouts) After that they are bands A-F(g).....
Screams government scheme to try and get rid of the last of the V8 range rovers & big jags etc that fall into the older tax system.
quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer
9 years does not sound so old for a vehicle to me. Even 9 years ago we had cats and emmisions to pass. Maybe 15 years would be a better age??
I don't really see an issue to be honest. As already said, it looks like there may be a glut on scrap cars. Also, I really find it hard to think
that the guy who is going to sell his faithful old sierra et al for a couple of hundred quid will be willing to fork out for a new motor even if he
can get a substantial discount, he'll be happy with another runabout for cheap money.
Just my twopence worth
Don't see this will significantly reduce future classics much though it will probably raise the price/value of scrap yard fodder (if it's already a candidate to go to the 'yard then it's not a future classic)! People looking to buy a new car will sell the current car and buy up an old'un to trade in and get the grant. For those of us who need parts from these old cars we'll need to get them while there still around but then that has always been the case.
Well that's the thing once the dealer's got them where will that car go? Either scrapyard where the parts will become available or to an auction somewhere.