As above ^ the width would be a big problem and it'd sit so far forward. Would be better to use the whole setup in the back of a car
Due to the increasing unavailability of rear wheel drive cars, can anyone see any problems in using a front wheel drive donor car and having my Locost
FWD?
I can't see the build being too much of a problem more the requirements for the SVA test.
fwd engines tend to sit a long way forwards,and transeversely.
Most kit cars using fwd donors mount the engine between the driver and the rear axle like the atom.
Simple answer - width. I cant see how you could get the drive to the front wheels with the narrow width of the chassis of a typical seven type car.
The engine of a seven is longitudal and generally behind the front wheels. There are still plenty of rear wheel drive cars available for the donor -
MX5 etc even if Sierra's are getting thinner on the ground so seems pointless really.
There's also the relevant point of prefering rwd for the driving dynamics
"We learn from an early age that FWD sucks"
As above ^ the width would be a big problem and it'd sit so far forward. Would be better to use the whole setup in the back of a car
quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
"We learn from an early age that FWD sucks"
quote:
Originally posted by m1kbee
I can't see the build being too much of a problem more the requirements for the SVA test.
You need one of
these as a donor.
Longitudinal engine and FWD (one of my favourite cars also 
)
Could be done with a Beetle, Renault 5 or Porsche transaxle with an inline engine bolted on using an adaptor plate.
But I suspect there's going to be a lot more mid engine designs (Sylva Riot and Atom design-alikes) coming out until BMW 1 series get into the
donor price range.
[Edited on 13/6/09 by iank]
If you want to use a FWD drive train why not build a mid-engined variant? FWD is not really compatible with the idea of building a lightweight sports
car - its just too compromised. There have been _some_ good FWD drive cars, such as the Lotus Elan, and various Fords, Renaults and Alfas, but on the
whole the weight distribution sucks, and trying to steer with the driven wheels leads to all sorts of problems that can only be (partially) solved
with trick suspension and diffs.
I've never owned a FWD car, but on the rare occasion that I drive them (usually rental cars), they just scare me - the steering is just so
awful, and they always feel like they're going to fall off the road at every roundabout. I understand that cars like the Focus RS are much
better, but they don't have them at Avis!
There are plenty of RWD donors out there - the MX-5 being the obvious one, but also various Nissans, the Honda S2000 and of course every BMW and
Mercedes. Remember that the BMW 3-series outsells the Ford Mondeo.
Nick
quote:
Originally posted by nstrug
There are plenty of RWD donors out there - the MX-5 being the obvious one, but also various Nissans, the Honda S2000 and of course every BMW and Mercedes. Remember that the BMW 3-series outsells the Ford Mondeo.
Nick
Most mondeo engines fit to a rwd box too iirc, I was thinking about it this morning when I walked past an old st24
Also have you ever skidded a fwd car? You see the tree coming, plus you look like a berk doing understeer, like you didn't think of turning the
wheel...
Right, answer posts in order.
alistairolsen: Are the Atom plans available for free on the internet or less than £5 in a book?
Steve G: I could possibly make the front a bit wider to accommodate the extra width. Wider cars usually handle a bit better in my experience but it
would mean I would have to custom make the entire front end.
Benzine: Civic Type R isn't too bad for FWD.
Steve G: I've always fancied doing an adult Kettercar with a moped engine.
James: See first rply to Steve G (sorry, couldn't be bothered typing it all again)
speedyxjs: Any idea which cars have those or where I could get one cheap. I know the Noble M15 has one but if I had one of those I wouldn't be
ripping it apart.
iank: first bit: far too technical for me.
Second bit: its a matter of getting the plans rather than buying the kit.
nstrug: 1- I have no intention on driving fast, more like cruising along steadily.
2- I've only driven 2 RWD cars. My mates BMW 318 E36 - not bad and my bosses Smart car - God awful. Worst car I have ever driven.
3- Need the prices of those to drop below £500 before i can consider them.
And finally,
FEZ1025: Lol. Hicostbuilders :-)
quote:
Originally posted by m1kbee
Right, answer posts in order.
alistairolsen: Are the Atom plans available for free on the internet or less than £5 in a book?
Steve G: I could possibly make the front a bit wider to accommodate the extra width. Wider cars usually handle a bit better in my experience but it would mean I would have to custom make the entire front end.
Steve G: I've always fancied doing an adult Kettercar with a moped engine.
Need the prices of those to drop below £500 before i can consider them.
quote:
Originally posted by FEZ1025
quote:
Originally posted by nstrug
There are plenty of RWD donors out there - the MX-5 being the obvious one, but also various Nissans, the Honda S2000 and of course every BMW and Mercedes. Remember that the BMW 3-series outsells the Ford Mondeo.
Nick
Then the forum name gets changed to www.hicostbuilders.co.uk but then again looking at some peoples builds maybe it ought to be in use already.
Alan...
Andy, BMs on autotrader for less than £500 have done over 150,000 miles.
Kettercar:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ketter-Childs-Go-Cart_W0QQitemZ130312678391QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Toys_Games_Outdoor_Toys_Bikes_Ride_Ons_LE?hash=item1e573dabf7&a
mp;_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A17%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
You could always just buy a NEW engine at a later date (clicky on the NEW)
quote:
Originally posted by m1kbee
Andy, BMs on autotrader for less than £500 have done over 150,000 miles.
quote:
Originally posted by m1kbee
Andy, BMs on autotrader for less than £500 have done over 150,000 miles.
FWD engines and boxes are in front of the axle line thats why they are perfect for RWD/Midi applications.
Why not design a RWD 7 for yourself?
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
FWD engines and boxes are in front of the axle line thats why they are perfect for RWD/Midi applications.
Why not design a RWD 7 for yourself?
Roundy's has got over 100k on it which is why it's got all the new parts.
coozer: I'm no good at design. Got a D in graphic design in CDT in school.
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
I was going to shorten the nose a bit in place of a larger back end. Thing is can the fuel tank go in the front?
quote:
Originally posted by m1kbee
Due to the increasing unavailability of rear wheel drive cars, can anyone see any problems in using a front wheel drive donor car and having my Locost FWD?
Just as fwd have become more popular then rwd cars in recent years, mid engine rwd kit cars are set to become more popular than front engine rwd.
I would be surprised if Haynes didn't released another book for a mid engined alternative to the roadster.
I do like the look of the Riot.
[Edited on 17/7/09 by clbarclay]
Good point, make a shorter nosecone for a larger back end so you sit more forward relative to the car.
Mind you the powers that be are working on a single seater that's a middy
I've just noticed the thread on single seater in the Haynes section 
Though having a quick read, its not what I was thinking off.
As we now have some lovely shiny new Duratecs and Zetec to use won't the problem in the future be a lack of Type 9s to mate them to or can other gearboxes be adapted to fit (not really a gearbox whizzo as is probably obvious)
Am I being just being thick or would you have to somehow reverse the way the gearbox span to put an FWD set up in the middle?
High mileage isn't a massive problem, my uncle had a merc that passed 250k, and as everyone else said, you can always replace or recondition the
engine when you need to.
If you make a midi using the engine and transmission of a typical front wheel drive car, then its orintaion remains exactly the same. The whole
arrangement is literally just moved straight backwards to behind the seats, so the wheels are still driving the right way.
Typicaly front wheel drive cars have the engine in front of the front axle, with the differential and driveshafts behind the engine.
[Edited on 25/7/09 by clbarclay]
Why not make a 4WD, using a stock FWD setup feeding 2 diffs? Think in terms of the Sierra 4WD setup...
Aren't most car AWD systems positioned really far forward with the engine over the front axel? If I'm right that will upset weight distribution, would it not?
Should have explained my idea a bit more..
IF there's space, then fit a normal FWD engine/box combo, but longitudinally (in-line), not transverse. You would then have the two driveshafts
feeding a diff each, rather than a wheel each. In the case of the Sierra system, the front diff does sit under the front of the engine, but hiding
this inbetween the front wheels (move the diff foward 2 feet) shouldn't be too hard..should it?
Makes sense in my head...
then you end up with two final drives and an overall reduction of around 9 or 12:1, along with the engine offset. You would be better to use something
like the cosworth 4x4 setup and move the diff forward on a longer prop.
No the atom plans arent available for a fiver, but it doesnt take a great degree of knowledge to come up with something on a similar layout, and plans
such as the riot are available.
People need to stop getting hung up on the locost thing. 250 quid was a fair wedge of cash when the book was written, and a drop in the ocean now. I
doubt many builds are completed for under 5k now.
In those terms, a 500 quid donor is nothing.
[Edited on 27/7/09 by alistairolsen]
Ah yes...forgot about the double reduction ratio...unless you can find 1:1 diffs!
Ooops...