Hey i'm sure theres someone on here using one of these engines. I want to install one in a Rover SD1 but I dont know what gearbox to use, or even if its possible. Can anyone advise? I'm thinking of using a type-9 box and trying to attach the bellhousing from the 800 (manual box). Any suggestions will be gratefully recieved. Ace site by the way.

Well I've got no idea about gearboxes, but it sounds good

I'm impressed that you've still got a Rover SD1 in one piece . If you can get the crank spigot bearing to match the gearbox input shaft and find a clutch plate to fit the Honda and match the type 9 spline the only thing to worry about is the depth of the bellhousing and drilling it to match the type9 bolt pattern. You might be able to get an adaptor plate or make one to fit the two bolt patterns together. Sounds simple doesn't it? Good luck anyway.

its Liam

hes not on much tho

try an email if hes listed it

u2u as last resort

atb

steve

A more reliable engine than the awful Honda 2.5 V6 but still not up to Hondas usual standards, also the reall BHP is some way short of the actual.
A 4 cylinder Rover M or T series 16v would be an easier fit -- mates to an SD1 gearbox if the correct backplate is used, claimed bhp is more realistic -- 140 bhp in standard multi point injection form or 170 to 192 in turbo depending on version. it is also more reliable and smoother than the V6.

[Edited on 10/12/04 by britishtrident]

Or you could always use one of those very nice very cheap Alfa engines

or then again you could go bike engined.

our you could take a leaf from adam's rubber band car project.

lots of advantages :

no sva reqd
no tax
no mot
no insurance

all you need is a really really big spring !


atb

steve

Or even a Rover V8, got to be a lot less hassle. Or even a Meteor tank engine like that bloke in PPC.

Steve, I think his car is gonna be more than 400mm long, so it is not eligable

??????

I dont want a bike engine (in an SD1?) or an alfa twink or an oil-haemhorraging Rover 4-cyl (which in my view is definitely NOT smoother or more reliable than the Honda V6) nor do i want a Rover V8 (dont like pushrods)!

What i want is the silky-smooth and oiltight Honda V6 in a hard-as-nails-looking series one SD1. This is alleged to be 177hp normally, not the highest bhp/litre but i imagine with some nice manifolding for the rwd installation this can be improved somewhat (the standard manifolds are very rudimentary scaffolding-pipe jobs).

I think i am going to try to use a Type 9 box, and modify the Honda bellhousing to attach to this box.

I think the Honda V6 is used in a couple of Cobra reps also but i can't find anything other than a picture of one which supposedly has the engine in, which doesnt help me much.

i'd love to know how this Liam chap is doing it but I cant get hold of him.

what about a nice beemer engine?

Ned.

ps would come with a gearbox that fits

[Edited on 13/12/04 by ned]

A BMW motor in a rover? Blasphemy!!!!

(yes, i know the 75 diesel has a BM motor).

bmw did own rover at one point

Hello...

Yep it's me. Dunno what BT means - these engines are excellent. Having been part of a community that actually uses them for a few years (the Rover 800 mailing list - oh yes!) and having owned them myself (both V6 and 4-pot) you get to know the real picture. In a few years and probably...billions of emails about rover 800s I dont think I've heard of a single failed 2.7. OK one failed in a kit car cos it didn't have enough oil in it. Loads of owners have V6s with over 200,000 and a few were over 250,000. They only have one problem ever - noisy tappets.

I originally joined the list to ind out about the rover KV6 cos i'd heard about it in a kit car mag. I was immediately told to avoid it like the plague and use the honda.

The 4-pot is also very good too - mine (non turbo) had 180,000 on it and still pulled amazingly smoothly all the way to 6500. But generally those engines arent as reliable as the V6, specially the turbo, mainly with oil leaking and gasket problems. Definately are not smoother than the V6 either.

As for power the quoted 177 seems reasonable. They go like stink compared to a 2 litre with 145 quoted for the later ones. The latest 2.7s with cats are lower compression and power so maybe that's where that rumour comes from?

The 2.7s dont respond amazingly to a freer exhaust and airbox (only 6-8 bhp rr'd) mainly cos the dual length standard intake runners aren't that great at flowing and the cam is extremely mild. With all that removed and allowing it to stretch to 7000 (no probs) you can get more power. I've seen one on carbs in the back of a 205 showing just over 200bhp on a rr printout.

I'm probably gonna ditch the standard intake on mine and make runners into two plenums (one on top of each rocker cover) and two throttle bodies (from a 1.4 k-series about ideal size). Renault V6 in the middy clio is like this. I'll get it running with megasquirt n' edis.

Main reason for this is cos i want to lightly turbo it later which will need remappable management anyway, and because wiring up the standard management is a bitch. Unlike, for example, a lovely alfa V6 for which the ecu comes out the car on it's own wiring and plugs straight back into the engine, the clever guys at Rover entagled the ecu wiring with the entire loom of the car. Getting what you need is a horrible stripping down job of the standard loom or rewiring from scratch starting at the three big plugs on the engine loom. I've got a massive wad of diagrams to help but i probably wont bother with it. OK aftermarket management is still lots of work - but it's better work!

There is no RWD gearbox which means more work. I'm doing a 4x4 so i'm stuck with the non-removable bellhousing of the cossy MT75. So i made an adaptor plate which also holds the rear engine mounts (this is where they are in the rover). Clutch spacing in this case means a custom flywheel but I have a cnc machinist friend doing me a nice ally one.

If you use a box with removable bellhousing then it would be easier to chop that about. The honda manual box doesn't have much of a bellhousing being a FWD box. You'd want to chop off a couple of inches (which also holds the starter motor), chop off the right mount of your type-9 bellhousing and weld the two together with a bit of plate between. All nice and concentric of course. Then you can keep the honda flywheel clutch and starter. If you cant find a ford-splined pressure plate the same size as the honda clutch I'll eat my shorts. Knock up a spigot support (bit of oilite bush will do) and job's a good'un!

If I can be of any more detailed help let me know. To be honest, I've recently come round to the alfa 3 litre V6. Beautiful, ally like the honda and a doddle to get running. If you can find an old alfa6 RWD box it bolts straight on - but good luck. I'm sticking with the honda cos it's more reliable and a 90 degree V so it's low enough to fit under an unfettled seven bonnet. All the rest are really tall. But you may want to consider the other options as the honda isn't the easiest installation. Phantom Automotive use the 2.7 in their GTR kit so maybe they have a loom they can sell if you've got some money.

Well, hope that helps. If ya still want to shove the honda in the SD1 after that then good luck to ya! Great engine!

Liam

[Edited on 13/12/04 by Liam]

after going to see a friend today with a recovery business - I know of two v6 engines that are for sale - one a manual and one an auto - if you want more info U2U me .

If you change your mind and like the idea of a V6 alfa, i just bought two complete cars. One for £150 and the other £142.

We have just made a bellhousing to fit a type 9 from steel and should be making some alloy ones soon.

And the do sound nice.

12v cloverleaf 200bhp standard
24 230 ish

Just as a matter of thought, any-one considered the Honda Legend as a doner for a mid-engined beasty. Doner is/would be longitudinal engine with gear box directly behind AND FWD. I think it would make a pretty neat/compact instalation. Oh and I believe they were 3.0 V6. (but if wrong I stand corrected.)

Anyway gearbox would also mate to rover 827 lump.


Enjoy.

The Rover 2.7 has been fitted to Land Rovers to be eligible for ARC off-road competitions. (anything with a Rover issued engine number meets the regs). I think the chap in our branch used an R380 five speeder. It was reputedly very quick, but not as effective as the previous V8, or the subsequently fitted 210hp diesel. I think the injection was problematical as well.

Early legends used the 2.7 transverse just the same as the rover. Later ones had a 3.2 or even 3.5 (up to 240 bhp I think) longitudinal as Jolly said. But the box isn't a transaxle - it sends the drive forward via a prop to a diff on the sump. Imagine the front of a sierra 4x4 system.

OK for a middy with a very long rear overhang!

Also the box for a 3.2 or 3.5 wont fit the 2.7. 3.2 and 3.5 are totally different blocks with entirely different bolt patterns. On this assumption, some guy got as far as removing the 2.7 from his rover and lowering in a 3.2, only to find the gearbox wouldn't bolt on. Huh huh.

Liam

I know very little personally about all this, but have seen: A Dax Rush with the 2.7 Honda/Rover engine in it, so somebody has fitten one to a rwd 'box there, and also a Rover 216 (old shape one) converted to RWD, used in the BTRDA championship rallies, I last saw it in 1998 I think, and it went quite well. it had two fabricated alloy plenhams over throttle bodies, and ran an aftermarket management system of some sort. You could try speaking to WGT Auto Developments, as I think they had a bit to do with the car and could help out. It certainly had a Ford RWD box, a type 9 I think.

Postscript - - Just been on to WGT's website, looks like they did the conversion, they mention it under "engine conversions" (funnily enough!) have a look at : http://www.wgtautodevelopments.co.uk

try car and car conversions magazine troll through back issues on the net. they have featyred 827 powered midget!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do i do that then? trawl the back issues i mean.

i have been checking those man areas around the house!! you know garage/potting shed/ loft/greenhouse etc to find the copy i had but to no avail. if i recall the feature was on the cover of car and car conversions, contact them see if they will assist you further regards martin