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Triumph Spitfire (and TR7 rear axle) ?
Arthur Dent - 1/2/05 at 07:00 PM

Ok - I want to build a Locost and I'm in North America so Sierras are out. I was thinking about a Spitfire for a donor and a TR7 4spd providing the rear end (same bolt pattern just hub centric). Would it be possible to use the whole front suspension pretty much intact? I know the series 4 Lotus Sevens and Europas used it in modified form. Anyone know how different? The Spit engine is a bit marginal but I think it could work.

Could also go with an early Hyundai Stellar with a 1.6L 4 banger and 5spd as its a Cortina clone with a Mitsu engine.

niceperson709 - 2/2/05 at 06:09 AM

Hi Arthur
have you subscribed to the Lo cost North america list ? there are some canadian builders there that can give you some good advice on building there .and I am sure that a few builders who have used spit parts in their build .
best wishes and remember
DON'T PANIC
Iain

britishtrident - 2/2/05 at 09:19 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Arthur Dent
Ok - I want to build a Locost and I'm in North America so Sierras are out. I was thinking about a Spitfire for a donor and a TR7 4spd providing the rear end (same bolt pattern just hub centric). Would it be possible to use the whole front suspension pretty much intact? I know the series 4 Lotus Sevens and Europas used it in modified form. Anyone know how different? The Spit engine is a bit marginal but I think it could work.

Could also go with an early Hyundai Stellar with a 1.6L 4 banger and 5spd as its a Cortina clone with a Mitsu engine.


All Lotus from about 1960 to 1982 or so used Triumph suspension only one with any mods was the Elan models with knock off hubs peg drive wheels. Although I am not sure about the Seven S2/S3 which may have had the top ball joint taper reammed out to take a bigger ball joint as they used a Ford track control arm to form the upper wishbone.

Elan, Seven, Europa used Herald/Spitfire parts.
Plus 2S, Elite, Eclat used GT6/Vitesse parts.

Lotus used U section lower wisbone not unlike the Triumph but the front ant rear part of each wishbone was completely seperate.

The Tr4, 5 & 6 series Triumph suspension were similar but larger and used a 4.5 inch pcd wheel fitting.
SAAB suspension on the 90/99 series was a Triumph design and if the CV joint was gutted is another possible solution.

Arthur Dent - 3/2/05 at 03:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by niceperson709
Hi Arthur
have you subscribed to the Lo cost North america list ? there are some canadian builders there that can give you some good advice on building there .and I am sure that a few builders who have used spit parts in their build .
best wishes and remember
DON'T PANIC
Iain


I joined the NA list a while back (currently a little distracted by a Reliant Scimitar GTE of all things - about 3 in the country) but my question here isn't too wacky as the early Stellars were basically Cortinas with a different body and engine (North American never got Cortina after the MkII and the US didn't get the early Stellars) so the Yanks don't really have any insight in that option. And the Spit/TR7 are Brit cars

Anyone done a Cortina build? I'm worried that the 4" wider rear axle will look goofy on a book-ish chassis. If there is pics I wouldn't mind taking a look. Speaking of width does anyone know the width of the TR7 axle? I've heard that the car itself is as wide a 70s Corvette ... I'd like to avoid going with a +4 chassis with using such modest engines.

niceperson709 - 4/2/05 at 12:00 AM

Hi Arthur
if you use jim Mc Sorleys plans for a plus 100 chassis I'm sure that the cortina axel would work fine
best wishes
Iain

Soul-tez - 4/2/05 at 04:02 AM

I too am considering using spitfire front suspension. The chassis will need modified to mount everything. I did the string computer thing and the roll center is in a good place and it dosen't move much as the car rolls. The only thing that worries me is the trunion. I have had two of these things break on me in the past. once was at a track leaving the pits at about 30 MPH. I don't even want to think what it would have been like if it would have been on one of the high speed turns. The GT6 Front upright is supposed to be stronger but I cant see how since it uses the same trunion as the spit. You get bigger brakes with the GT6 set up as well. Do Caterham owners have problems with these things breaking? As far as the engine goes I think that I'm getting about 100HP at the flywheel in my car and there is more to be had depending on how much you want to spend.

Good Luck

britishtrident - 4/2/05 at 07:36 AM

Trunnions don't give problems if lubricated -- the plug on the trunnion should be removed a nipple fitted and a straight gear oil (ie non-ep) pumped in.

chrisf - 4/2/05 at 02:07 PM

quote:

...(North American never got Cortina after the MkII and the US didn't get the early Stellars) so the Yanks don't really have any insight in that option. And the Spit/TR7 are Brit cars


That is quite the interesting comment. You understand that Canada--and Mexico for that matter--is part of North America, right? The NA mailing list includes many Canadians, many of whom have used the Stellar. This comment comes up often on the NA list--almost distractingly so.

Perhaps surprisingly, we yanks did manage to get a few Triumphs in the country. They were reportedly bulletproof, though, so indeed the yanks may have little experience with their inner workings...

--Chris

Arthur Dent - 4/2/05 at 03:53 PM

as regards to the Spitfire trunnion it should be too big an issue I would think. It will be living in a lighter car but if you're still worried then you could try asking some of the Spitfire racers. If you use the GT6 hubs (similar to the TR series ones) you can apparently make use of 4 pot Toyota brakes from an early 4x4 truck (there is an article kicking about). I owned a 1974 Spitfire for a couple years and the brakes are pretty bad.

Chris - I realize that Canada and Mexico are part of North America. I know that the Cortina/Stellar thing has come up a couple times but as far as I know no one has actually used the parts nevermind the whole car I thought I'd ask here as I'm sure people have used MkIV or V Cortinas as full donors. And I do realize we got Triumphs (actually NA got more than UK) but it was convient to lump the two questions together. No offense intended towards the US or the NA list. Cheers.

britishtrident - 6/2/05 at 12:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Arthur Dent
as regards to the Spitfire trunnion it should be too big an issue I would think. It will be living in a lighter car but if you're still worried then you could try asking some of the Spitfire racers. If you use the GT6 hubs (similar to the TR series ones) you can apparently make use of 4 pot Toyota brakes from an early 4x4 truck (there is an article kicking about). I owned a 1974 Spitfire for a couple years and the brakes are pretty bad.

Chris - I realize that Canada and Mexico are part of North America. I know that the Cortina/Stellar thing has come up a couple times but as far as I know no one has actually used the parts nevermind the whole car I thought I'd ask here as I'm sure people have used MkIV or V Cortinas as full donors. And I do realize we got Triumphs (actually NA got more than UK) but it was convient to lump the two questions together. No offense intended towards the US or the NA list. Cheers.


GT6 upright is different from the TR part --- based on the Standard Vanguard item the TR part is a similar design but much bigger. Also the Wheel pcd is different 4.5" for the Tr as oposed to 3.75" on the Herald/Gt6. However the brake caliper is the same part number of Girling P16 or M16 depending on year of manufacture.

The GT6/Vitesse front suspension is the similar to the very early Triumph Herald/Spifire but with a beefier stub axle and different caliper bracket. The caliper bracket, stub axle and steering arm are bolt on on this type which is one of the reasons why it was do widely used in single seaters.

The much more common late model Herald/Spifire upright isn't so useful because the caliper bracket, steering arm and stub axle are cast in one unit.

As to the Hyundai part at least one builder has used them -- the only known difference is the thread on the stub axle.

[Edited on 6/2/05 by britishtrident]

[Edited on 6/2/05 by britishtrident]

Arthur Dent - 7/2/05 at 03:24 PM

ah ok. I know at least some people have attempted the Toyota brake swap on the GT6.

Any idea what the thread difference is? I assume its metric but weren't the last Cortinas too? I assume the Transit vn swivel would be ok then. Thanks.

britishtrident - 7/2/05 at 04:37 PM

Thread difference is o the wheel bearing retainer -- not significant unless the nut gets lost

Arthur Dent - 7/2/05 at 04:44 PM

excellent! I think as soon as the snow melts I'll check the local scrapyards for Stellar spindles to at least keep my options open. Thanks!