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Sierra/saphire
mad_skillz - 7/12/02 at 07:02 PM

I have just been given a saphire 1.8 f-reg. What is it like to build from this and what engine etc? I am going to use a live axle.
Thanks
Alex

jollygreengiant - 7/12/02 at 10:54 PM

1.8 pinto lump is relatively sound (uses 2.0 block,crank,rods).
If it's 1.8 cvh just be aware that they do tend to crack the pistons on either/or/both No's 2 &3 cylinders across the skirts & gudgeon pin bearings resulting eventually in a terminal engine & large-ish lumps of metal floating around in the sump.

mad_skillz - 8/12/02 at 05:00 PM

how would i tell the difference. From what i have learnt from the forum it has a type9 gearbox if thats any help. It says in the book that there are three variations of engine, OHC, V6 and diesel.
Thanks
Also it was first registered in 1988

chrisg - 8/12/02 at 06:51 PM

The cam cover on a pinto is long and thin , about 5 inches wide. the CVH has a much flatter and wider cam cover perhaps9-10 inches and the exhausts are offside on the pinto and nearside on the CVH - both are OHC engines, the V6 has two cam covers and an exhaust each side.

The Diesel?.............mmmm no idea!!


HTH

Cheers

Chris

jollygreengiant - 8/12/02 at 07:10 PM

Ok here we go
Pinto engine - single ohc. carb on right (when looked at from front) and distrubutor mounts onto block lower front.
made in :-
1.3 Total Naff unless you want 50mpg

1.6 (Early) - early has 1.6 stamped onto cam cover over auxiliary pulley.

1.6 E-Max - Later has 2 stamped on cam cover, uses 2.0 block & crank. (tiny pistons)

1.8 as per E-Max above but slightly larger pistons

2.0 Not age related only differences are with EFI lumps which use different heads,
with different ports shapes to cater for the injectors.

CVH (stands for Compound Valve Hemispherical) Engine Single OHC. Carb on Left and usually distibutor cap mounted on front of top cam pulley by 2 twist locks onto cam cover.
Made in :-
1.6 Normally later CAT equiped vehicles only comes with EFI and normally DIS igntion coil pack (no distributor cap)

1.8 As above but not normally injected and Usually has distributor cap on cam cover with timing pick-up on lower pulley.

DOHC engine

2.0, twin cam, chaindriven, 8 vavle, VERY heavy flywheel, weak heads & chains prone to breaking. Carb or EFI models

V Engines
Usually 2.3 or later 2.4 lumps but the some times got replaced by the 2.8 or 2.9 models.
The best ones to get hold of were the ones that had individual exhuast ports instead of the Siamesed heads

then you got the diesels 2.3 (old peugeot lump) or the newer 1.8 oil burner ( with or without turbo big injection pump on left side of block)

stephen_gusterson - 8/12/02 at 07:30 PM

my 2.4 has the extra exhaust ports.

Everyone says these are better.

HOWEVER

how the heck, using the 2.8 / 2.9 as a comparison, did ford manage to make the breathing better, add another 100cc and still make the same 150 hp???

Perhaps the extra ports help if you tune it. If I was the project manager at Ford, I would have been disapointed. Unless its a lot more economical or some other benefit.


atb


steve

mad_skillz - 8/12/02 at 10:08 PM

thanks very much, i will have a look tomorow but if i have any trouble i will take a pic and post it.

jollygreengiant - 9/12/02 at 09:33 AM

Stephen, Extra port gives better breathing for the Siamesed cyliders thereby giving better economy on the same level of tune and a slightly more reliable engine due to less stress.

James - 9/12/02 at 12:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
Stephen,


You'll get told off now- only his Mum and (when angry) wife call him that!

jollygreengiant - 9/12/02 at 02:38 PM

Oops, Sorry

mad_skillz - 9/12/02 at 08:14 PM

oh sh*t its a cvh, oh well, does any wanna exchange one, its only done 25k, or where can i get a pinto or other good engine/gearbox
Alex

stephen_gusterson - 9/12/02 at 09:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by James
quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
Stephen,


You'll get told off now- only his Mum and (when angry) wife call him that!





ROFL

Nice - someone actually takes what I write in






poor you





Stephen or Steve - its all good - just dont make it Stephanie.

atb

steve

stephen_gusterson - 9/12/02 at 09:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mad_skillz
oh sh*t its a cvh, oh well, does any wanna exchange one, its only done 25k, or where can i get a pinto or other good engine/gearbox
Alex



if its really only got 25k, why ditch it? most of our cars, i would guess, do 3k or so miles a year? you will get a lot of use out of it before things start to crack and fall off, at say 75k.

Its easy to get a bit sensitive. According to what I have read over the last few years, pintos and colognes are boat anchors, Rover K series blow heads, Ford 8v DOHC are junk, etc.

Fact is these engines were used (and are used, for the K series) for years - the CVH is in loads and loads of Fords and they dont exactly fall off the road all the time.

Make your decision on what you want / need / lust for power / can best get for the money. make an appraisal on that particular engine.

Scrap yards are full of high milage CVH and pinto cars, they can do it!

One engine that seems to be good on power and reliablility is the vauxhall 2.0 - but few seem to use it.

Some rave on the K series - light, revvy, good power, and tunes well. But then when I did a survey on the TOL site, no one was actually using one!!!!! SO much for the raves.

If you are happy with the power of the 1.8 - which is 90hp - consider it. If ultra cautious, take the pistons out and check em for cracks. Bit extreme tho....


atb


steve

Proud owner of a Cologne 2.4L 130hp boat anchor.



[Edited on 9/12/02 by stephen_gusterson]

jollygreengiant - 10/12/02 at 03:54 PM

Sorry steve (and all else) I know I tend to be a bit of doom & gloom when it comes to engines, but if you can avoid possible problems then while the engine is out that is the time to fix/prevent possible problems.
I think that the ford belhousing / block fitting/location is fairly standard so it should be just a case of finding the lump you want, or inspecting your lump/reasonable overhaul, ie gaskets, oilseals, timing belt & maybe even oilpump replaced/uprated with possible replacement bearings to help it hang tight.

Simon - 10/12/02 at 04:31 PM

Jollygreengiant,

These largish lumps often to be found in the sump wouldn't happen to look like this:

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/xmb/photos/cgi-bin/showpic.pl?bits_in_engine.jpg

Would they?

ATB

Simon

jollygreengiant - 11/12/02 at 12:10 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Simon
Jollygreengiant,

These largish lumps often to be found in the sump wouldn't happen to look like this:

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/xmb/photos/cgi-bin/showpic.pl?bits_in_engine.jpg

Would they?

ATB

Simon


Thats the pic with the 4 bits around the paper clip?. I'm very much afraid that they are. Get a strong lamp (maglite is good) and look up from the crank to the underside of each piston very carefully, my experience is that the damage usually occurs on No2 &/or No3 piston/s.
Cheap option - hone & new pistons (temporary)
other - exchange recon block from Vege/Ivor Searle is usually best cos you cant do a standard proper rebuild for the price you buy the exchange lump for.

Simon - 11/12/02 at 12:50 PM

JGG

Original plan was to use as much as poss from donor, and then drop in RV8 once SVA'd/reg'd. However, after finding these bits, and thinking about all the work involved swapping engines, I've decided to drop RV8 straight in.

So 1.8CVH will, this w/end, find itself residing in the bottom of a skip - where it belongs!!

ATB

Simon

theconrodkid - 11/12/02 at 05:07 PM

nowt wrong with the cvh,ill have it if you dont want it

jollygreengiant - 11/12/02 at 07:34 PM

RV8 Lovely engine. Make sure the oilways are primed before you give it serious revs if its been standing a long time or if its rebuilt pack the oil pump with vaseline before trying to start it.
Also if you get any problems sealing the Exh manifolds to the heads, the ports are the same size exactly as pinto exhaust ports (the three big ones I believe).
Enjoy.

stephen_gusterson - 11/12/02 at 10:29 PM

jollygreen -

all engine advice is good - and I didnt mean to make my post sound like 'ignore the advice of people that work with cars all day and believe the electronics engineer'.


Its just that I think people close to cars every day only see the horror stories and not the huundreds of cars that dont blow up. If 5% of CVH engines break their pistons, you will see em - you wont see the 95% that dont!

Chances are a 25k CVH will run to 75k minimum (?) and with a kit car thats gotta be about 10 years life!

It seems to me that engines, in reliablilty terms, are really bad.

In electronics, MTBF (mean time before failure) gets measured in 25,000 - 50,000 hrs. A disk drive is supposed to last about 25k hrs I think. thats about 3 years continuous.

Now take a car engine.

say, 30mph average (thats what my beemer thinks its doing on an average tank full) and 120k miles.

Thats a MTBF of a really POXY 4,000 hours.

Only 4x that of a light bulb, and half a year continuous.


Hows that for a suprising and possibly useless bit of trivia?


atb


steve



[Edited on 11/12/02 by stephen_gusterson]

jollygreengiant - 11/12/02 at 11:28 PM

Cars & especially engines have come quite a way, although some of that could be down to changes in the amount of driving that we have to do now.
Back in the seventies the expected life of an engine was about 100k. now I regularily see cars that have 100k min on the engines & they are just getting run in!. come to that I saw a fleet vehicle the other week & I think that was on 250K (original engine, no oil leaks & not a year old). 4 pot ford I believe!

bob - 12/12/02 at 09:20 AM

I think better oils have something if not all to do with engine life,the last 20 years has seen a flood of different oils for all occasions.

As for the RV8,send sierra log book off to DVLA and change eng number to the V8.
A lot of cobra builders do this and still get away with an age related plate,would save engine swap