Kinda planning what to do with my ford orion once we get a new car to replace it. I've been thinking that I need a car that is fun to drive instead of just a vehicle for transportation. Anyway, I figured I might as well find out what parts from the orion could be used in a locost and what modifications would be needed to the chassis.

also, how do you translate that "16 gauge" measure? metric system anyone?

You could use the engine, coupled to a suitable box, the steering column, wiring loom, possibly the wheels

16g =1.6mm

Seconded. You could use either an Escort mk2 box (4 speed) or a Sierra type 9 (5 speed). Column will fit but you'd have to make your own downlink. You'd also need the Escort mk2 steering rack, back axle and Sierra or Cortina hubs. Loom and wheels are certainly usable though.

Chris

so the engine would fit right in? that has actually been one of my main questions when thinking about building a locost (been thinking about it for quite a while): what if the engine compartment turns out to be too small.

Are ford gearboxes totally interchangable? or would modifications be needed (I definitely think I'd go with a sierra gearbox as the early escorts are rare around here)?

It wont fit right in.

An orion is FWD.

Once you have gone to the trouble of getting another box and mating it up with the correct clutch, you would probably be better getting a sierra 2 litre. Its gonna have a bigger more powerful engine than your orion, and will also have the support of other companies such as MK engineering, who can supply adapters for the hubs, and likely sell you suspension parts.

I recon you would be taking a harder route and be fairly on your own using orion / escort parts.........



atb

steve

[Edited on 30/6/03 by stephen_gusterson]

Stephen is spot on. The CVH *can* be fitted, but is the pissing about worth it? IMO no. Westfield offer them (or used to anyway) as an engine option, and they are quite tunable, so the parts are out there, but you have a lot of engineering as regards engine mounts (no dedicated lugs on block for north/south mounting), resiteing of alternator etc. Dropping on S/H inlet and exhaust manifolds will be difficult too, compared to other Ford stuff.

Otherwise, build a mid-engined car, and utilise your gearbox too....

Stu.

quote:

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Originally posted by Stu16v
Otherwise, build a mid-engined car, and utilise your gearbox too....

Stu.

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Have to disagree on the fact that it would be harder to do. The CVH is very capable (my XR2 has been on the rollers at 158bhp at the wheels naturally aspirated) and will mate straight up to a type 9 5 speed box or an older Escort mk2 4 speed box. It will all go into a standard chassis and will be far lighter an shorter than a Pinto with the same power capability.

If you do decide you need more power there are plenty of tuning bits out there for it (cams, heads etc) or you could very easily swap it out for a turbo unit.

Chris

what have you done to the xr2 to make it 158bhp, that sounds like money has been thrown at it, they're not that high as standard surely?

Ned.

building a locost is a time consuming excercise.

Do it a different way and you will spend alf your life on it.

Buy a sierra.


You will remember my words sometime in 2007 and know only too late I am right.

I speak from experience.

atb

steve

".......some slight modifications to the gearbox unless I want 5 reverse gears, right?"

Why?

If the engine is mid-mounted in the same configuration as it came from the donor then you'll still have 5 forward gears, unless you insist on turning the engine around by 180 degrees.

Your problems will be gear linkage, uprights and wishbones, unless you use all major components from donor building chassis around them, and using some kind of tie rod to stop your rear wheels from steering.

ATB

Simon

be encourged to experiment, cvh engines are very tunable.

it does take time but then what that matters doesn't?

my build is book/racing and is so that i can get an age related plate, once i'm through sva the xflow will go in favour of something more modern and with greater power. (sorry xf guys)

my current car is a fiesta rs turbo which has had about a further 500 pounds thrown at it from standard.

Magnex exhaust, 195 chip, induction kit and hybrid t2 turbo. It makes 195bhp at the flywheel (as per dyno run printout and 155 at the wheels)

if the fiesta is scrap by the time the lowcost is complete guess where the engine is going.

xr3i's aren't too bad with 110bhp standard and there is a host of go faster parts, this together with that the mechanical injection set up doesn't seem too hard to fit , less electrics, spend about £200 on a cam and expect a further 20bhp at the flywheel.

so wether it's rear wheel drive through a type 9 or a mid engine go for it.

yes it will take longer but if you can build a car then it is just another task to overcome.

alternately build a mcsorley plus 4 wider car so that chassis width isn't an issue.

if you can make a car you can make engine mounts.

realise the dream

but

you may well find that basing a build on an orion just because tou have it may prove more expensive that a more classic build.

the most important thing is that you please you.

i'm off for the flack jacket and await opinions

Regards
Ewan

quote:

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Have to disagree on the fact that it would be harder to do. The CVH is very capable (my XR2 has been on the rollers at 158bhp at the wheels naturally aspirated)

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escary - no flack from me but, as you say

its a bit daft modifying a whole build just cos you happen to have a particular car.

As it costs 50 quid around here to get a sierra taken away, then an ad in a paper will get a sierra for free.

Then you would have the right car just hanging around.


ANYONE on this list used a FWD escort car as a donor?


atb

steve

I used a FWD Astra as a donor....but only for the engine!

aquward bugger!

Im just tying to make a point that its not worth the struggle to use a 75 - 90 hp 1.4 - 1.6 cvh from an orion and save this guy a whole loada grief.

If its summat like 150hp from an astra 2 litre, its possibly worth the hassle!

atb

steve

[Edited on 1/7/03 by stephen_gusterson]

quote:

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Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
aquward bugger!

Im just tying to make a point that its not worth the struggle to use a 75 - 90 hp 1.4 - 1.6 cvh from an orion and save this guy a whole loada grief.

If its summat like 150hp from an astra 2 litre, its possibly worth the hassle!

atb

steve

[Edited on 1/7/03 by stephen_gusterson]

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quote

btw, I don't think that a mid-engined car is necessarily harder to make than a front engined car. It's different but it's only the location of the engine bay and the linkage for the gearbox... and the rear suspension. from what I've seen in magazines, the engine bay is basically just a box and then the rest is built around that.

unquote


Thats extremely simplistic.

Just take a look at the subject of suspension.....there are loads of parameters involved in getting a well handling car. Things like bump steer, ackerman, scrub radius, toe in, camber, roll centres, I could go on.

'the book' locost is kinda proven, andything you may decide to do yourself isnt.

Just consider the following for a rwd mid engined using front engined bits :

1. handbrake - how? The front wheels on the back dont have one.

2. gear change - how? the gear mechanism will be at the rear number plate - you need the hassle of your own linkage design.

3. your front engine has steering - you need to get rid of it and that will likely induce bump steer due to the tie rods you use to anchour it.



Its quite easy to end up with a car worse than the book, as a car isnt just a box with wheels in the corner. 100 years of automotive industry have got good handling to the state it is.

Us builders that go out on their own have very little knowledge of that 100 years - and there is so much scope for error.

the closer you stick to a proven design, the less likely mistakes will be made. The more you deviate from the book, the more time the build takes.

Jasper build a 'book' bike engined car in a year. Im building summat different and im in year four.

As mr gibbs once said 'does all the extra time add to the driving experience'. Probabably not,

My 'weird' build is cos I wanted summat different from a seven replica. If you want a seven replica, follow the accepted examples of 100s of cars that came before yours.

making a rear engined car will add lots of time and hassle to the project - and what will you gain?

Building a car and making mods to it isnt as simple as you think.

trust me as one who has strayed from the path.

atb

steve

quote:

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Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
Building a car and making mods to it isnt as simple as you think.

trust me as one who has strayed from the path.

atb

steve

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yes, its nice to do something different.

I have done lots of things differently.

Just little things really add to the time!

If you want a rear engined car, how about using mk1 mr2 bits - the engine is powerful, and people - like alan B's meerkat - have done it before.

atb

steve

My opinion would be do what you really want to do, if you want a middy, great, go for it, what does it matter if it takes longer than it might if you're enjoying what you're doing? If on the other hand you want to use the onion because you've got it and it's convenient, I wouldn't bother, flog it off, and buy a cheap, crap sierra, hell if you're that fond of the CVH, get one with one of them in it, and it'll already be set up for RWD. I think the primary reason the CVH isn't used very much is because while it's OK, it's not great at anything in particular, it's not nice, new and shiny with 16 valves like the zetec/duratec, it's not mind numbingly simple or have tuning parts coming out of it's ears to the extent of the xflow or to a lesser extent pinto, it hasn't got the raw grunt and sound of a V8 or the shear screaming instanity of a bike engine, but it's still and OK engine, and in many ways better than a pinto if it were only made in a 2 litre capacity.

Kingr

why not take a look at the mid engined section? alanb and the like are very knowledgable and I'm sure will be more than happy to help if you do decide to go down that road...

use whatever engine you like, there are pros and cons of each. just consider the ffort of the various options and when you're happy, "just do it " (no nike copyright infringment meant)

Ned.

yep. this wasn't intended to be a mid-engine vs front-engine vs whatever discussion anyway. My initial questions have been answered

thanks for the help btw