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how much can you modify a car before requiring SVA/IVA?
will121 - 3/9/09 at 08:35 PM

i fancy doing something like a mid engined mini project, but how much can you modify a mini before now requiring a SVA/IVA (if at all required)? just looking at one on ebay at mo link
but if i modified shell, axles etc thought it would need re-registering/inspection and now reverse gear

blakep82 - 3/9/09 at 08:47 PM

you can't do anything to the chassis, no cutting bits out or anything.

difficult to avoid in a mid engine project i fear

Rod Ends - 3/9/09 at 08:55 PM

Look at the angle of the driveshafts!

iank - 3/9/09 at 09:07 PM

The rule has been tightened up and reworded relatively recently (linky) says

quote:
In order to retain the original registration mark:
cars and car-derived vans must use:
The original unmodified chassis or unaltered bodyshell (i.e. body and chassis as one unit - monocoque); or a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original supported by evidence from the dealer or manufacturer (e.g. receipt).


Now there's obviously some small wiggle room, obviously welding a bracket or drilling a hole or two to the chassis/shell isn't going to be considered alteration. However chopping out the back for a mid engined mini is going to require IVA.

IVA is going to be a challenge as plenty of bits of standard mini interior won't pass the projection requirements. Modifying the front subframe to take another engine is perversely fine in a mini as it's not considered to be the chassis so putting a BEC (or whatever) up that end and driving the front wheels is completely fine and above board so long as it passes an MOT.

Humbug - 3/9/09 at 09:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
you can't do anything to the chassis, no cutting bits out or anything.

difficult to avoid in a mid engine project i fear


It's difficult to be very precise though... what about if you drill a hole for something? Technically, you've "modified" the chassis then.

Playing devil's advocate here... I think that cutting out the rear chassis and whacking a RWD diff and driveshafts in there is quite a mod.

myke pocock - 3/9/09 at 09:10 PM

But if you modify it and then take it for an MOT without declaring the modifications to DVLA, is it up to the tester to say YES or NO WAY? If they do the MOT where do you go from there? Just asking as I may plan a similar project.

Dangle_kt - 3/9/09 at 09:41 PM

Another think to consider is the problems you may have if it ever gets robbed, set on fire, or crashed into (or it into something)

That sort of technicalilty is exactly what insurance companies would use to void your insurance and not pay a penny (apart to the third party who i think they have to as far as I can remember)

coozer - 3/9/09 at 09:51 PM

What about that MK1 Escort thats rotten to death and every panel apart from the roof is replaced??

Or a solid standar one thats had turret towers, 4 link and panhard rod inc brackets, also any type 49 parts welded on??

blakep82 - 3/9/09 at 10:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Humbug
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
you can't do anything to the chassis, no cutting bits out or anything.

difficult to avoid in a mid engine project i fear


It's difficult to be very precise though... what about if you drill a hole for something? Technically, you've "modified" the chassis then.

Playing devil's advocate here... I think that cutting out the rear chassis and whacking a RWD diff and driveshafts in there is quite a mod.


yeah, but cutting out the boot floor to fit an engine is a bit more than drillint a hole

house19uk - 4/9/09 at 07:19 AM

We have just started stripping my sons mini with the view to putting a 1600 vtec and a flip front on it. Will this need IVA as well??

t16turbotone - 4/9/09 at 07:21 AM

i would think you were into the realms of a "radically altered vechile" probaly require iva,

will121 - 4/9/09 at 07:32 AM

quote:
Originally posted by house19uk
We have just started stripping my sons mini with the view to putting a 1600 vtec and a flip front on it. Will this need IVA as well??

i thought there was still a points system where you needed 8 points or more to avoid re-registration but that is whai im trying to confirm, i believe if you are fitting a vtec on a modified front subframe with the main monocoque remaining un modified should be ok, but cant confirm there is something like 5 points for monocoque, and then additional for front axle, rear axle, steering, engine etc.
im going to have to dig a bit deeper

g.gilo - 4/9/09 at 08:19 AM

if u take this as gospel it must be the end of restoring any rusty classic, a pair of sills and a few chassis cross members = iva? never.
graham

Staple balls - 4/9/09 at 08:27 AM

I'd've thought there'd be a lot more leeway with restoration.

Replacing like for like is very different (IMO) to making significant modifications that change the car from the original, intended design.

iank - 4/9/09 at 08:40 AM

quote:
Originally posted by house19uk
We have just started stripping my sons mini with the view to putting a 1600 vtec and a flip front on it. Will this need IVA as well??


No the front subframe and wings aren't part of the monocoque and therefore don't hurt.

linky

You need 8 points from

chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
suspension = 2 points
axles = 2 points
transmission = 2 points
steering assembly = 2 points
engine = 1 point

Should get an easy 9 points for a VTEC conversion.

stevebubs - 4/9/09 at 10:05 AM

If it's a 1980 mini, who's to know you didn't do the RWD/chassis mods before SVA came about?

speedyxjs - 4/9/09 at 10:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by iank
You need 8 points from

chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
suspension = 2 points
axles = 2 points
transmission = 2 points
steering assembly = 2 points
engine = 1 point

Should get an easy 9 points for a VTEC conversion.


I can see this tread going on for ages.

My next project i want to modernise a classic so new suspension, brakes, modern engine, PAS etc.

Am i right in thinking this will need IVA?

house19uk - 4/9/09 at 10:30 AM

Ours is a 1972 mini but should make 9 points ok thanks iank.

Does that mean it will keep its free tax as well?

alistairolsen - 4/9/09 at 11:15 AM

quote:
Originally posted by g.gilo
if u take this as gospel it must be the end of restoring any rusty classic, a pair of sills and a few chassis cross members = iva? never.
graham


That's not modification, that's repair. Welding in boxes for a 5 link kit would then need an sva tho!

will121 - 4/9/09 at 11:49 AM

quote:
Originally posted by iank

linky

You need 8 points from

chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
suspension = 2 points
axles = 2 points
transmission = 2 points
steering assembly = 2 points
engine = 1 point

Should get an easy 9 points for a VTEC conversion.


thats exactly what i was after, looks like it will have to be a front wheel drive engine swap then, as even the idea of front motorbike engine rear wheel drive will need the monocoque modifing for the propshaft. might end up having to do it to a MG Midgit!!

[Edited on 4/9/09 by will121]

speedyxjs - 4/9/09 at 12:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by will121
quote:
Originally posted by iank

linky

You need 8 points from

chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
suspension = 2 points
axles = 2 points
transmission = 2 points
steering assembly = 2 points
engine = 1 point

Should get an easy 9 points for a VTEC conversion.


thats exactly what i was after, looks like it will have to be a front wheel drive engine swap then, as even the idea of front motorbike engine rear wheel drive will need the monocoque modifing for the propshaft. might end up having to do it to a MG Midgit!!

[Edited on 4/9/09 by will121]


Nowt wrong with a midget

Ninehigh - 5/9/09 at 08:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
quote:
Originally posted by iank
You need 8 points from

chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
suspension = 2 points
axles = 2 points
transmission = 2 points
steering assembly = 2 points
engine = 1 point

Should get an easy 9 points for a VTEC conversion.


I can see this tread going on for ages.

My next project i want to modernise a classic so new suspension, brakes, modern engine, PAS etc.

Am i right in thinking this will need IVA?


I wouldn't have thought so, so long as there's no bodywork modification. For example (from what I understand here) if the new suspension and brakes are pretty much bolt on that's fine, if the engine just needs new mounts welding on that's fine too. But if you need to cut a cross beam out to fit it all that might well be different. I hope I'm right I'd love to do that as a job, modern classics

FEZ1025 - 5/9/09 at 10:48 PM

Sorry it's a bit long at 26 pages but there are some good replies from Mark Vickers of VOSA, http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=129943 but I get the impression that an engine swap with a new front subframe on a Mini will be IVA.

Alan...

renrut - 7/9/09 at 10:58 AM

quote:
Originally posted by iank
linky

You need 8 points from

chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
suspension = 2 points
axles = 2 points
transmission = 2 points
steering assembly = 2 points
engine = 1 point

Should get an easy 9 points for a VTEC conversion.


I knew I was in for an IVA on my mid bike engined Fiat project but then it does score exactly 0 points! Best get working on that reverse then.

DarrenW - 14/9/09 at 11:53 PM

We all know what a chassis is but how do we define what a monocoque shell is? Im just hoping Ian K's definition is correct as there was discusion recently in a mini magazine that fitting a flip front to a mini 'could' trigger IVA. Id say it shouldnt as long as the front subframe is unaltered. If it does then it would be easier to refit the steel front i guess.

Another post on the mini forum is saying the new IVA rules ref modifying cars will apply to cars manufactured from 2012 and not to cars dated before this cut off. I would have thought the wording would probs be for any mods carried out to any car after 2012 otherwise pepole will just buy older cars and do what they want (pretty much as has been happening before now).


Lets hope the rules put an end to people with little common sense creating something potentially dangerous. One grey area may be how would they know if a car was modified before the 2012 cut off or not? Hopefully the rules arent being applied to any car, ie those that were modded before 2012. Maybe there will be an amnesty like pre-SVA for modified cars to get marked up on V5 without needing an IVA.

renrut - 15/9/09 at 03:06 PM

I think the main thing is keeping within the spirit of the rules. It seems you can bend them a little here and there but try to bend too many at once or one in a big way and I'm sure it'll only end badly.

Its all to do with safety at the end of the day. 1 drilled hole to fit through a pipe or cable is very unlikely to cause someone to die/be injured but a front frame holding the brakes and suspension and the large engine weight, if designed or built in a substandard way where the hole thing could detach at speed is likely to be viewed very dimly.

That said you can completely bin the monocoque of a car and provided you use all the parts from the donor, you would still gather enough points to save you from IVA...