Just been reading this over lunch and it got my blood boiling :-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23694438
Ok, so there is no such thing as road tax but why do Cyclists seem to think it is their right to what the hell they like on the roads!
Every road user - scooters, cars, motorbikes, lorries, cars & trailers, HGV, PCV, Tractors etc etc has to have a licence - i.e. some formal
training and meet a required standard, must be checked that is is safe to be on the road and have valid insurance. They don't even have rear-view
mirrors!!!
I have got nothing against cycling in general, or correct responsible cycling. But some of what you see on the roads is terrible, cyclist running red
lights constantly, not signalling and turning across in front of cars, filtering at manic speed through tiny gaps, running on and off payments, riding
two abreast. I bet if I did all that on my motorbike I wouldn't last long before the Police had words!
And of course cyclist can and do cause accidents. A few years ago a friend of mine was riding down the road on his 6 month old GSXR1000, below the
speed limit (20 in a 30) . Suddenly a suited cyclist (no helmet of course) rode off the adjacent pavement hit the bike at a 45 degree angle. Knocked
my mate off and sent bike down the road. Police were not interested and as the cyclist had no insurance could not claim against him, even tried
against his house insurance. Left him very out of pcoket!
So why do we not have a basic cycling qualification and a licence you have to renew every few years?
Makes my blood boil also how motorbikes squeeze through tiny gaps to get to the front at traffic lights then speed of like they are in a race, change
from lane to lane and for some reason they have a special lane just for them down the centre of the road where the diagonal lines are which I thought
was a now go area for all of us, and then you have the car drivers that virtually swerve of the road to let them pass, and I have nothing against
motor bike riders, rant rant rant
I ride and commute on my bike in all weathers. Soon as I leave my drive "everyone" is out to kill me and I ride accordingly.
If it means p$$in off a few impatient motorists, then so be it.
Try signalling when you're trying to dodge hospital sized potholes and I-phone punching idiots behind the wheel..........
I'd gladly pay vehicle tax to ride my pushbike, but as long as I could quite happily rid in the middle of the lane at 15mph with some loony
trying to have me off for hogging his share f road tax tarmac.
Get yourself a bike and give it a go, it could change your mind.
I pay "tax" on 4 vehicles so surely qualify for a bit of space????
quote:
Originally posted by dave107
Makes my blood boil also how motorbikes squeeze through tiny gaps to get to the front at traffic lights
quote:
Originally posted by dave107
for some reason they have a special lane just for them down the centre of the road where the diagonal lines are which I thought was a now go area for all of us,
quote:
Ok, so there is no such thing as road tax but why do Cyclists seem to think it is their right to what the hell they like on the roads!
quote:
Every road user - scooters, cars, motorbikes, lorries, cars & trailers, HGV, PCV, Tractors etc etc has to have a licence - i.e. some formal training and meet a required standard, must be checked that is is safe to be on the road and have valid insurance. They don't even have rear-view mirrors!!!
quote:
But some of what you see on the roads is terrible, cyclist running red lights constantly, not signalling and turning across in front of cars, filtering at manic speed through tiny gaps, running on and off payments, riding two abreast. I bet if I did all that on my motorbike I wouldn't last long before the Police had words!
quote:
And of course cyclist can and do cause accidents. A few years ago a friend of mine was riding down the road on his 6 month old GSXR1000, below the speed limit (20 in a 30) . Suddenly a suited cyclist (no helmet of course) rode off the adjacent pavement hit the bike at a 45 degree angle. Knocked my mate off and sent bike down the road. Police were not interested and as the cyclist had no insurance could not claim against him, even tried against his house insurance. Left him very out of pcoket!
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
From someone who regularly does both I can see blame comes from both sides and insuring/licensing cyclists isn't a sensible, achievable or administer-able option.
Agree with clanger and ride all three but all types of motorist wee others off because none of us do anything wrong that's why there are so many
accidents and deaths, everyone needs to stay with in the laws and give a little and have more patience.
Had a cyclist stop me when I approached a round about on the way to work this morning, he was on the round about then went behind me and up onto a
grass bank onto a cycle path that pissed me off.
Pedestrians make my blood boil.
They cross the road and none of them have licenses or insurance.
And don't start me on pigeons and wasps. If we could start taxing wasps then that would sort the economy out.
Just as in every other type of transport, there are good and bad riders/drivers. I agree with the 'ride defensively' attitude but there are
times when no amount of defensive riding/driving will stop some idiots causing grief.
I have riden motorcycles for almost 40 years, had 2 minor accidents (both my own stupidity and involving no-one else) but sold my last bike around 18
months ago as I was spending more time avoiding phone-toting fools or 'blind' drivers than actually enjoying my riding so she finally went
and with it I would think my riding career
I've watched too many cycles cross the red lights, cut in front of people etc. etc. but I've also seen plenty driving with courtesy and
care, just as I have car drivers and motorcyle riders.
Insurance would be a great idea for the reasons already mentioned, claiming against an 'obvious fault of the cyclist' accident, and I reckon
most responsible riders would happily oblige.
One last input to the rant, what about all these disability electric carts? How many times have we seen them going down the dual-carriageway? Do they
have tax, insurance, reg plates? Apart from the legal side of things, it's damn dangerous!!
Just my 2p worth
quote:
I disagree here, I firmly believe that all primary road users (i.e. not pedestrians) should have a minimum level of insurance cover. Being able to cause significant damage or injury to someone or their property with absolutely no come back is inherently wrong.
some kind of numberplate would be the best thing for bikes - that way they could actually send fines to folk for jumping the lights etc. (along with
higher penalties for serious things like red lights - is it not only £30 at the moment if you get caught ? ) but I don't see any practical way to
enforce it without massive costs.....
quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
And don't start me on pigeons and wasps. If we could start taxing wasps then that would sort the economy out.
Well this prompted some discussion
As I said - I have nothing against the responsible law abiding cyclist - the point that most people seemd to have missed.
My rant was towards the irresponsible and dangerous cyclist that are out though - a number of whom it 'appears' are leading a crusade
against other road users.
As a road user, no matter what vehicle, bicycle, invalid carriage, rikshaw etc you are using you have a RESPONSIBILITY to yourself and OTHER road
users. There are plenty of examples where road users have tired to undertake/overtake a vehicle at a turning and been hit by a vehicle. In many cases
the turning vehicle gets the blame but surely the other party should not put themselves in that position to start with. And you also need to think
about the consequences for both parties - imagine being involved in a fataility even if you are totally blameless it is bound to have some mental
affect on you.
Totally agree with the behaviour of some motorbikers. I've been a motorcyclist for over 17 years and there are plenty of idiots around who force
cars out of the way, inappropriately filter and generally ride stupidly and put themselves in dangerous situations.
quote:
Any driver who is reasonably observant will drive in a manner that reduces the likelihood of an accident down to near zero (excepting cyclists firing out of side roads without looking at 20mph which does occasionally happen). If he'd seen the cyclist on the pavement he should have been aware they sometimes do stupid things, especially if they're kids. Doesn't it make more sense just to drive safely to avoid others (no matter who they are) than rant about it? And seeing as it's illegal to ride on the pavement it's reasonable to assume they may get off teh pavement at some point soon.
quote:
Try signalling when you're trying to dodge hospital sized potholes and I-phone punching idiots behind the wheel..........
quote:
As a final note, why would you assume a cyclist isn't licensed? Most adult cyclists I know are drivers too with the full training.
The BBC are always heavily biased in favour of the cycling mafia
What gets me is (1) Cyclists who don't use perfectly adequate and well maintained cycle ways. (2) Cyclists who ignore red lights, then take
great delight in holding up the traffic they have just jumped ahead of.
It is time somebody pointed out that cyclist on main commuter routes and busy country roads cause massive amounts of pollution and fuel wastage by
forcing following traffic to drive inefficiently.
I have a foot in both camps on this ( I drive a car and I ride/race a bike ). The same topic came up today on a cycling forum that I frequent and
received a similar amount of sweeping generalisations, "they are ALL idiots...", "It makes my blood boil when..." etc.
etc.
I'm sure we can all find some damning "evidence" that will prove our point, but, in reality, for every bad cyclist there is a bad
driver.
Are we really all (both sides) so narrow minded that we really can't see the other point of view? Even just a little bit ??
[Edited on 15/8/2013 by TimEllershaw]
Don't get me started on horses on the roads
Yes I know what you mean
Had a run in with a cyclist 2 weekends ago. Went out for a Sunday run out across the Peaks. Parked up on side of the road near Chatsworth due to one
of the other lads blowing a radiator hose. Car was well off the road. 4 others parked up behind me.
Then a rubber necker slowed to view the cars parked up and a cyclist going down hill like a bat out of hell skidded, just missed the rubber neckers
car (how, i do not know?) and ended up hitting my parked car.
Cheeky gits tried to blame it on me for parking on the roadside. Then came out with a host of excuses why it was not his fault.....
Forunately the Kit behind me had his onboard video running. When I threatened him with criminal damage, he soon coughed up for a new front
wing.....
Makes me bloody mad though............think they can get away with anything, including hitting a parked car!!! see the video below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9-F82OeSrQ
[Edited on 15/8/13 by Tazzzzman1]
quote:
What gets me is (1) Cyclists who don't use perfectly adequate and well maintained cycle ways. (2) Cyclists who ignore red lights, then take great delight in holding up the traffic they have just jumped ahead of.
quote:
It is time somebody pointed out that cyclist on main commuter routes and busy country roads cause massive amounts of pollution and fuel wastage by forcing following traffic to drive inefficiently.
Cannot believe only one person has mentioned horses. Horses on the road get me so cross. People with zero control over powerful animals (1 horse power?) Just wander about willy nilly. I was nearly killed by a rogue horse once when it got spooked by a Jack Russell. I also cannot abide jack Brussels.
quote:
Originally posted by Irony
Cannot believe only one person has mentioned horses. Horses on the road get me so cross. People with zero control over powerful animals (1 horse power?) Just wander about willy nilly. I was nearly killed by a rogue horse once when it got spooked by a Jack Russell. I also cannot abide jack Brussels.
And the riders never clean the horse sh@t up off the road
I like cyclists to jump red lights at least it stops them parking in front of me at traffic lights
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
It is time somebody pointed out that cyclist on main commuter routes and busy country roads cause massive amounts of pollution and fuel wastage by forcing following traffic to drive inefficiently.
Really? Never experienced that in my life. Seen a few queues of 5-10 cars slowed for 30 seconds, but at the end of the day - who cares?
[Edited on 15/8/13 by coyoteboy]
where I live its murder in the summer as its a popular cycling area, narrow country roads and groups of 5 or more who instead of travelling line abreast insist on taking up the whole lane and refuse to move over, even had one offer me out last month when I used the horn, funnily enough when I pulled over he wasn't so keen?
Must admit I think cyclists should pay some kind of insurance, not families out with their kids but the lycra clad professional cyclists that cause
all the mayhem on the roads.
Most are decent enough but in recent years I've noticed a huge increase in moronic actions from cyclists.
Riding single file seems to be non existent nowadays, they all ride 2 and 3 abreast choking up the road. Also the way they seem to think no rules of
the road apply to them, facing a red light for cars all of a sudden they are pedestrians etc.
Only yesterday I was stopped at temp traffic lights at the foot of this really steep hill, lights were red and there were 2x cars in front of me. Up
come 2x lycra clad cyclists who just ignored the red light and breezed on through 2 abreast.
Lights changed and we crawled up this hill behind these cyclists who would not get out the way, the lights must have changed about 3 times before the
cars could safely get past these clowns. The cars at the top of the hill wanting down had to back up.
A few months ago I was doing some shopping in town and was walking along the pavement when a cyclist decided to pull the 'I'm now a
pedestrian' stunt he was hurtling towards me shouting 'go left' go left' I felt like booting him right off his bike.
Like I said most play the game but personally I think it's this emphasis on being green that has given cyclists an over inflated sense of
importance. This law about the motorist taking on guilt in every accident with a cyclist unless he can prove otherwise is a bit harsh as well,
that's why I have front and rear dash cams fitted. Take a tenner off them and make them have insurance.
[Edited on 15/8/13 by Scuzzle]
Ok, cyclists, like horses and pedestrians have a right to use the highways, so licence not required.
I agree standard of some cyclists not very good, but all user groups have issues, it's just that you see more of the cyclist because they are
slow.
Cycle lanes can be a waste of time. Have one in Tunbridge Wells on the pavement with give way at every driveway or entrance - quicker on the road
Cheers
Simon (car user, cyclist, ex horsey person and ex motorcyclist)
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
Ok, cyclists, like horses and pedestrians have a right to use the highways, so licence not required.
I agree standard of some cyclists not very good, but all user groups have issues, it's just that you see more of the cyclist because they are slow.
Cycle lanes can be a waste of time. Have one in Tunbridge Wells on the pavement with give way at every driveway or entrance - quicker on the road
Cheers
Simon (car user, cyclist, ex horsey person and ex motorcyclist)
Most drivers would do well to remember they are the most recent addition to our roads. People, horses and pushbikes were all there before cars.
IMHO anything that discourages cycling; taxes, insurance etc is not a good idea. Better the effort be applied to improving the way we all use the
roads.
As a nipper I did the cycle proficiency test at school, run by the local bobby IIRC. I recently enquired at my kids school about this to find there
was nothing available. I would be happy to give my time to teach the kids after school, but not sure (yet) what's involved.
As a regular cyclist on my own and with young kids, the roads are not a pleasant place to be. Very few drivers give enough consideration to cyclists.
We tend to head off road wherever possible.
Taxing cyclists is a sound idea. We'll do it on emissions like cars and anyone generating over 100g of CO2/km can pay...oh
right....erm.....perhaps we'll scrap that idea.
I cycle commute on occasion and do a fair number of road miles training for triathlons. In my experience, the vast majority of drivers are very
courteous and I always give a wave of thanks to anyone who has taken a second or two to not squeeze me, or pass at a sensible opportunity.
I do go a different route home than to work though as I've had too many near misses riding back through Ravensthorpe. HGV drivers are by far the
worst IME.
As for cycle paths, it's recommended they're only used if travelling below 18mph for a start. On a road bike on the flat, that's easy
to achieve. Cycle paths aren't like roads for bikes though. Most cycle paths are either adjacent and unsegregated from pavement, or dual use.
Cycle paths therefore have pedestrians and for some reason, pedestrians on or near cycle paths are oblivious to the world around them.
quote:
Originally posted by Daddylonglegs
One last input to the rant, what about all these disability electric carts? How many times have we seen them going down the dual-carriageway? Do they have tax, insurance, reg plates? Apart from the legal side of things, it's damn dangerous!!
Just my 2p worth
While spending a year in Finland I cycled everywhere within the city and 'suburbia'. Far more pleasurable than the UK, where every driver is
to some extent simply out to kill you.
In Finland, in any RTA involving a cyclist, it was presumed that the cage was at fault. Period.
Upon the Septic Isle, my eperience is that the 'driver' of the cage can slaughter and injure anyone that impedes them, with a good chance of
impunity.
Recently here on the A17, a judge found it quite acceptable that a 'driver' overtook an agricultural vehicle to kill an oncoming scooter
rider. It was ruled that the 'driver' was 'frustrated' and had reasonable expectation that the scooter rider would 'move
over' should he invade their road space. Sick society, with someone now deprived of a daughter.
Motor vehicles payed for the roads, without motor vehicles almost all our roads would be dirt tracks.
The problem is the cycling mafia not the bicycle.
Yes a lot of cycle paths are blood stupid and useless and dangerous to pedestrians but some are proper cycle ways and the they still get ignored by
the very lycra louts who complained about the the lack them in the first place. This summer significant sums of money has been wasted in my area
creating cycle paths on the pavement with truck loads of signs and white paint, utterly and completely useless to cyclists and would be dangerous
to pedestrians if anybody did use them. Worse a narrow twisty two lane country road that carries streams of commuter traffic in the rush hours is
now sign posted as a cycle route, most mornings I watch one particularly bloody minded lycra lout pass followed by up to 30 cars.
This is not the Netherlands in nearly all of the UK with the exception of East Anglia the bicycle is totally impractical as a means of transport
because of the nature of UK geography.
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
quote:
Originally posted by Daddylonglegs
One last input to the rant, what about all these disability electric carts? How many times have we seen them going down the dual-carriageway? Do they have tax, insurance, reg plates? Apart from the legal side of things, it's damn dangerous!!
Just my 2p worth
Oh yes, now I've seen some with tax discs and number plates (so I persume they have some form of insurance too and when I asked one of them told me it was capable of 12mph) but when they're going down a 60 road at 5 when it's dark and they have no lights. Yeah I've nearly taken out old guys like that.
As for RLJ's, I just think "one day I'm going to be on the green side of that light, and hit one of them, and it'll be my fault for not thinking for him"
I wouldn't mind if they looked like they checked it was clear to go.
This does a bit more than 12mph
quote:
This is not the Netherlands in nearly all of the UK with the exception of East Anglia the bicycle is totally impractical as a means of transport because of the nature of UK geography.
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
This is not the Netherlands in nearly all of the UK with the exception of East Anglia the bicycle is totally impractical as a means of transport because of the nature of UK geography.
Only if you're horrendously unfit
I think a lot of the dislike of car drivers for cyclists is because of getting stuck behind them for some time when it is not always necessary.
I used to travel to work along a busy road with two lanes of traffic in each direction. If you stayed in the right lane, you'd get stuck at every
set of traffic lights as someone waited to turn right. If you stayed in the left lane, you'd catch up with a bike. It was very difficult to
overtake, because of the nose to tail traffic in the next lane made lane changing almost impossible and when you eventually did, you'd inevitably
get stuck at the next set of lights (that you would have sailed through if it weren't for being previously slowed by the bike) and the cyclist
would pass up your inside and the whole scenario would repeat.
On a clear run, you could pass through a dozen sets of lights on green or at least with only 10 second stops. Catch up to a bike and you'd be
stopped for a minute at each and every set.
As one of the main commuter routes in the area, it was woefully overcrowded and just not suited to sharing.
Now the council has removed the left lane and replaced it with a bus/cycle lane (yes the buses get stuck behind the bikes) and massively increased
travel and queuing times for the majority of people. The sensible option, that would have removed most of the conflict, massively reduced delays and
allowed sharing, would have been to squeeze in right turn turn lane at each set of lights, allowing freer flow and easier overtaking.
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
The sensible option, that would have removed most of the conflict, massively reduced delays and allowed sharing, would have been to squeeze in right turn turn lane at each set of lights, allowing freer flow and easier overtaking.
quote:
Originally posted by indykid
HGV drivers are by far the worst IME.
As far as I'm concerned there is only two rules for me as a cyclist which are don't get hit by a car/van/truck, and don't cause anybody
else to have to swerve, brake hard etc. Other than that I do what I like.
Personally I think things are over regulated already. If you really want cycling to be taxed / licensed then be prepared to have to pay pavement tax
for walking down the street because there is no reason why that shouldn't be taxed either.
Stu
quote:
Originally posted by jackoSo do the disability electric carts give off emissions i don;t think so