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Changing engine running angle
h701 - 30/3/15 at 11:20 PM

Hi all,
I've always been on and off here reading some useful information so I thought it was time to sign up and ask for some help if you can. I couldnt see an introductory thread (if there is one point me in the right direction)

Onto my current query/problem;

I have an engine in a typical transverse FWD layout and as part of my next stage in this build I need some more engine bay space, not bags of room, but a little bit extra. It currently sits dead upright. There are alot of engines that run at an angle of 20-30 degrees of thereabouts.
The idea was thrown at me about pushing the top of my engine back, rotating about its driveshafts as not to upset their running angle, to gain said room required. It'll also shift more weight further inboard into the wheelbase which really appeals to me, and also lifting the sump itself that little bit higher, which also appeals

Has anyone done similar? Or can think of why this would/wouldn't be advisable?

Further thinking, what would I need to do other than the sump modifications and oil pick up to make sure the engine runs as normal?

Thanks in advance

Andy

[Edited on 30/3/15 by h701]

snapper - 31/3/15 at 06:26 AM

I think that's it
Sump needs leveling as does sump pickup, you could risk it by keeping sump oil level to max but I would think your compramised a little

Nickp - 31/3/15 at 06:38 AM

Depends what engine you're talking about really. As well as the sump you may have to consider the cams too. For example Fiat twin cam heads are designed to run the cams in a bath of oil. If you change the engine angle you can either starve the cams or overflow the cam boxes causing leaks. Probably not relevant to your engine but just a thought, even if it's just an oil return that's affected.

h701 - 31/3/15 at 07:32 AM

Thanks for the replies

The engine in question is Nissans GA16. I seem to recall there being an oil feed in the head to the cams but it's something I'd not prioritised in checking. I have a spare head I'll have a nosey at
A see-through cam cover would be a nice advantage here, if it remained see-through long enough to work out oil supply

As a side note do we have a build blog section?

Thanks again

h701 - 31/3/15 at 07:49 AM

Photo here of the cylinder head for anyone interested

SPYDER - 31/3/15 at 09:09 AM

I did what was effectively the opposite to you in that I took a tilted engine and now run it upright. Toyota 3SGE to be precise. The potential issue with my engine was the drain back of oil from the head. It has, however, been fine.
If your head drains it's oil down one side only and that becomes the higher side then you could get pools of oil on the low side. Looking at your pic it looks like there are drains at all four corners. If that is the case then you should be OK.

h701 - 31/3/15 at 09:56 AM

Thanks for your reply
Ah the 3S-GE one of my favourite engines

I have no drain on one side, however on a quick look at another head I have 2 core plugs that end I could tap and fit a small return pipe to?

SPYDER - 31/3/15 at 06:33 PM

External drain is a good idea. We had two of them on a V8 race engine many years ago. In your case though, I'd probably just rely on the existing drains.

pewe - 1/4/15 at 09:03 AM

quote:
Originally posted by snapper
I think that's it
Sump needs leveling as does sump pickup, you could risk it by keeping sump oil level to max but I would think your compramised a little

Problem with keeping the oil level up is it might encourage frothing (as BL engineers found out when early Maxis failed).
Recalibrate your dip-stick before installing the engine.
Also if you are using it for anything other than shopping trips oil will try to creep up the bores - fitting a windage tray (if it hasn't one already) is prob. a good idea.
The sump shape might need altering if you don't want it hanging low and as has been said already pay attention to the pump scavenge pick-up. Revised internal crucifix baffelling can help this.

As for the head, feed as well as drain down needs consideration - you can have too much oil up there.
See how much remains when vertical and then try to achieve the same when canted.
On some heads this can be done by enlarging the drain holes or conversely filling them in - JB Weld is pretty good for this.

As a reference point Fiat/Lancia engines were canted at 22 degrees off vertical.

Being front-wheel drive are there any issues likely with gearbox oil level?
HTH.
Cheers, Pewe10

h701 - 1/4/15 at 10:56 AM

Thanks for the reply

More things to consider. I haven't considered my gearbox as yet for 2 reasons
1) If engine canting isn't achievable then I'm considering a rwd conversion, although it looks promising
2) If I remain fwd the current gearbox isn't tough enough and another needs be sought. Currently considering an MR2T gearbox for the strength

That said I need an adapter plate either way so the gearbox remains level

That's another problem with my build I haven't come to a conclusion on, so I'm doing my research to make an informed choice
The engine in question is designed for longitudinal use but Nissan didn't bother making any adjustment when mounting it transversely. There is a RWD box out there albeit weak again

Any input on all the above welcome, though I suspect I need to make a separate thread in the transmission section? If not it would be good to keep it in one place