goodguydrew
|
| posted on 25/9/07 at 02:40 PM |
|
|
Omega Donor
A friend has offered me a 2.0 Omega Manual estate for free.
I know it has been mentioned as a donor in the past, but has anyone successfully used one in a book locost chassis?
Thanks
Andrew.
|
|
|
|
|
chrisg
|
| posted on 25/9/07 at 02:54 PM |
|
|
I'm looking at it as a potential donor for the Haynes Roadster.
I think the physical size of the parts might make it difficult to fit them into a Locost.
The main problems are that the front upright has rear facing steering arms, requiring the rack to be where the engine is. It may be possible to swap
the uprights side-for-side, but then the calipers would be on the front of the disc. it may be possible to fabricate new mounts for the calipers, but
to be honest I'm not that far into it, The BMW and Mazda donors are a priority.
At the rear, the hub is part of the trailing arm, meaning that it's not a simple unbolting/rebolting job like the Sierra, you'd probably
need a machined hub carrier/upright to be made.
The V6 engines are tall and quite heavy and the gearbox will require the tunnel to be enlarged.
If you decide to go this way I'd be glad to help, as reference for the second edition of the book.
Cheers
Chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
|
|
|
Fatgadget
|
| posted on 25/9/07 at 03:43 PM |
|
|
quote:
It may be possible to swap the uprights side-for-side, but then the calipers would be on the front of the disc. it may be possible to fabricate new
mounts for the calipers,
What issues with calipers at the front of the disc?
|
|
|
chrisg
|
| posted on 25/9/07 at 03:52 PM |
|
|
Do you know - you've got me there!
I don't know why, maybe it's just tradition but most seem to be mounted on the back of the disc, or occasionally on top.
I can understand why they're not usually on the bottom to keep them out of the muck but I don't know why they can't be on the
front.
Somebody more learned than myself will be along shortly to explain it I guess. 
cheers
Chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
|
|
|
blakep82
|
| posted on 25/9/07 at 03:55 PM |
|
|
well, i don't know how you can write a book on it if you don't know! 
aren't most rear calipers at the front of the disc?
besides, just looked at my dads 03 plate omega, and the front calipers are at the front of the wheel as standard.
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
|
|
|
chrisg
|
| posted on 25/9/07 at 04:11 PM |
|
|
I don't recall writing a book about brake calipers - but then I AM on heavy medication. ;-)
You've just got me running out to the garage!
You're right, I was looking at the mercedes uprights!
The question still stands though, can you use a brake set-up designed to work on the opposite side of the upright?
Calling any experts!
Cheers
Chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
|
|
|
blakep82
|
| posted on 25/9/07 at 04:13 PM |
|
|
i don't see why not, but you couldn't use the same steering rack
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
|
|
|
chrisg
|
| posted on 25/9/07 at 04:19 PM |
|
|
I dunno - "clown steering" could be quite entertaining! 
Actually I know it's not funny but I do know someone who didn't discover that particular problem untill he first started the car.
Oops!
cheers
Chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
|
|
|
blakep82
|
| posted on 25/9/07 at 04:21 PM |
|
|
don't know how much of a problem ackerman angles would be. I'll have to have a look of the truck later
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
|
|
|
Fatgadget
|
| posted on 25/9/07 at 04:32 PM |
|
|
quote:
The question still stands though, can you use a brake set-up designed to work on the opposite side of the upright?
The problem won't be the layout of the braking system,rather stuff like king pin inclination, arkerman angle and such like being arse about tit
I'd have thought.Then again I can't see any reason why the mounting points can't be altered to suit.
|
|
|
chrisg
|
| posted on 25/9/07 at 04:34 PM |
|
|
As I said I've not really gone into it too much yet.
If the steering arms are severly slanted in the wrong direction then ackerman (as well as steering arm lengths) could be a problem.
The solution I suppose would be a fabricated upright but if you're going to those lengths then you're not really using a donor as such, I
would have thought that something with a bolt on subaxle, like the rear of the Cavalier/Calibra would be more suitable.
i'll return to the subject when I've had a look, as I said BMW bits are first!
Cheers
Chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
|
|
|
chrisg
|
| posted on 25/9/07 at 04:38 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Fatgadget
quote:
The question still stands though, can you use a brake set-up designed to work on the opposite side of the upright?
The problem won't be the layout of the braking system,rather stuff like king pin inclination, arkerman angle and such like being arse about tit
I'd have thought.Then again I can't see any reason why the mounting points can't be altered to suit.
Ackerman is certainly a consideration, the KPI can be solved by moving the ball joint positions and possibly the wishbone chassis pick-ups, I leave
that sort of thing to the computer.
The other thing about the steering arms is: if there is enough meat on the arm you could use the old racing trick of bolting a plate top and bottom at
the required angle.
It all needs looking into
cheers
Chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
|
|
|
jollygreengiant
|
| posted on 25/9/07 at 06:52 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by chrisg
, but then the calipers would be on the front of the disc.
Cheers
Chris
And why would this be a problem??????.
Mk 1 Cortina GT's could have leading OR trailing calipers. Same caliper & disc just that the struts were different, leading or trailing
caliper mounts.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
|
|
|
jollygreengiant
|
| posted on 25/9/07 at 06:54 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
i don't see why not, but you couldn't use the same steering rack
Omega's have a steering box and drag links.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
|
|
|
davie h
|
| posted on 25/9/07 at 07:00 PM |
|
|
what about using the engine and gearbox and running the engine with the ecu and using the wiring loom for the lights and running it through the
sierra diff and shafts if you can join the front and rear sections from the prop shaft this way you could use the sierra/cortina uprights and
brakes
[Edited on 25/9/07 by davie h]
|
|
|
chrisg
|
| posted on 26/9/07 at 05:49 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
quote:
Originally posted by chrisg
, but then the calipers would be on the front of the disc.
Cheers
Chris
And why would this be a problem??????.
Mk 1 Cortina GT's could have leading OR trailing calipers. Same caliper & disc just that the struts were different, leading or trailing
caliper mounts.
Hmm, the problem isn't with front mounted or rear mounted calipers mate - just whether if they're designed to run one way, would there be
a problem turning them round?
i.e. If you swap the uprights over will the brake calipers work in the same way?
I thought someone would have answered this one by now!
Cheers
Chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
|
|
|
jollygreengiant
|
| posted on 27/9/07 at 12:03 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by chrisg
quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
quote:
Originally posted by chrisg
, but then the calipers would be on the front of the disc.
Cheers
Chris
And why would this be a problem??????.
Mk 1 Cortina GT's could have leading OR trailing calipers. Same caliper & disc just that the struts were different, leading or trailing
caliper mounts.
Hmm, the problem isn't with front mounted or rear mounted calipers mate - just whether if they're designed to run one way, would there be
a problem turning them round?
i.e. If you swap the uprights over will the brake calipers work in the same way?
I thought someone would have answered this one by now!
Cheers
Chris
Yes they will.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
|
|
|
gezer
|
| posted on 27/9/07 at 09:32 AM |
|
|
if you swop them over surely the biggest problem would be the castor angle and the angle of the pivot holes in the uprights, ???
I'm to old to live and to young to die --- buggerit
|
|
|
timf
|
| posted on 27/9/07 at 09:48 AM |
|
|
if you had caliper with different sized pistons it would make a difference else no
A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him."
- Sir Winston S. Churchill, 1952
|
|
|
chrisg
|
| posted on 27/9/07 at 06:03 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by gezer
if you swop them over surely the biggest problem would be the castor angle and the angle of the pivot holes in the uprights, ???
As I said the caster is governed by the relative centres of the top and bottom ball joints, which you have control over. There would be a problem if
the pivot holes were at an angle which was beyond the capability of the selected ball joint.
Depending on the material that the upright is made of, it may be possible to fill the hole with weld and re-drill/taper.
I don't know yet.
JGG - that's good to know, one less thing to sort out!
Cheers
Chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
|
|
|
jollygreengiant
|
| posted on 27/9/07 at 06:14 PM |
|
|
Yes brakes will work fine.
The disc's are machined to neutral, i.e. it does not matter what side a disc is fitted and it does not matter which direction that disc is
rotating in.
The same applies to brake pads.
The caliper pistons are also machined to be neutral, otherwise pistons would have to locate in specific places in the caliper when fitted.
The calipers are also machined to be neutral otherwise the same would apply about pistons and with rubber mounted caliper slides could you imagine the
engineering problems of catering for widely fluctuating tolerances.
If you require further proof, do your brakes work with any less efficiency if you are going backwards?
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
|
|
|
chrisg
|
| posted on 27/9/07 at 07:10 PM |
|
|
It's a good point!
Thanks for that mate, I follow the logic, it's just one of those things I've not really considered before
Cheers
Chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
|
|
|
gezer
|
| posted on 28/9/07 at 08:44 AM |
|
|
it was the inclination of the ball joints that i was thinking of ,
if they are in line through the uprights, it shouldnt make any diffrence,
I'm to old to live and to young to die --- buggerit
|
|
|
ashtal
|
| posted on 7/10/07 at 02:30 PM |
|
|
Im using an omaga doner and plan to used a left hand drive rack from a nova/astra and turn it upside down, think this would work with the omega
trailing arms pointing forward.
|
|
|
