m1kbee
|
 posted on 13/6/09 at 01:58 PM |
|
|
Front Wheel Drive
Due to the increasing unavailability of rear wheel drive cars, can anyone see any problems in using a front wheel drive donor car and having my Locost
FWD?
I can't see the build being too much of a problem more the requirements for the SVA test.
|
|
|
|
|
alistairolsen
|
| posted on 13/6/09 at 01:59 PM |
|
|
fwd engines tend to sit a long way forwards,and transeversely.
Most kit cars using fwd donors mount the engine between the driver and the rear axle like the atom.
|
|
|
Steve G
|
| posted on 13/6/09 at 02:03 PM |
|
|
Simple answer - width. I cant see how you could get the drive to the front wheels with the narrow width of the chassis of a typical seven type car.
The engine of a seven is longitudal and generally behind the front wheels. There are still plenty of rear wheel drive cars available for the donor -
MX5 etc even if Sierra's are getting thinner on the ground so seems pointless really.
There's also the relevant point of prefering rwd for the driving dynamics
|
|
|
Benzine
|
| posted on 13/6/09 at 04:00 PM |
|
|
"We learn from an early age that FWD sucks"
As above ^ the width would be a big problem and it'd sit so far forward. Would be better to use the whole setup in the back of a car
The mental gymnastics a landlord will employ to justify immoral actions is clinically fascinating. Just because something is legal doesn't make
it moral.
|
|
|
Steve G
|
| posted on 13/6/09 at 04:27 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
"We learn from an early age that FWD sucks"
I remember having one of those!! I was always a strong cyclist so could get some SERIOUS wheelspin out of mine. Maybe i should build one at adult
scale and fit it with plastic tyres - that would be fun!!
|
|
|
James
|
| posted on 13/6/09 at 04:35 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by m1kbee
I can't see the build being too much of a problem more the requirements for the SVA test.
It's not much of a problem if you don't build a Seven replica... it *is* a problem if you do!
The front axles obviously have to be pretty much inline with the front wishbones... these are right at the front in a Seven.
Also, a Seven is really narrow at the front... like 18 inches.... if you can find an engine and gearbox that only 18" wide you're doing
very well!
Cheers,
James
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
|
|
|
speedyxjs
|
| posted on 13/6/09 at 05:02 PM |
|
|
You need one of
these as a donor.
Longitudinal engine and FWD (one of my favourite cars also  )
|
|
|
iank
|
| posted on 13/6/09 at 05:11 PM |
|
|
Could be done with a Beetle, Renault 5 or Porsche transaxle with an inline engine bolted on using an adaptor plate.
But I suspect there's going to be a lot more mid engine designs (Sylva Riot and Atom design-alikes) coming out until BMW 1 series get into the
donor price range.
[Edited on 13/6/09 by iank]
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
|
|
|
nstrug
|
| posted on 13/6/09 at 05:16 PM |
|
|
If you want to use a FWD drive train why not build a mid-engined variant? FWD is not really compatible with the idea of building a lightweight sports
car - its just too compromised. There have been _some_ good FWD drive cars, such as the Lotus Elan, and various Fords, Renaults and Alfas, but on the
whole the weight distribution sucks, and trying to steer with the driven wheels leads to all sorts of problems that can only be (partially) solved
with trick suspension and diffs.
I've never owned a FWD car, but on the rare occasion that I drive them (usually rental cars), they just scare me - the steering is just so
awful, and they always feel like they're going to fall off the road at every roundabout. I understand that cars like the Focus RS are much
better, but they don't have them at Avis!
There are plenty of RWD donors out there - the MX-5 being the obvious one, but also various Nissans, the Honda S2000 and of course every BMW and
Mercedes. Remember that the BMW 3-series outsells the Ford Mondeo.
Nick
|
|
|
FEZ1025
|
| posted on 13/6/09 at 10:34 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by nstrug
There are plenty of RWD donors out there - the MX-5 being the obvious one, but also various Nissans, the Honda S2000 and of course every BMW and
Mercedes. Remember that the BMW 3-series outsells the Ford Mondeo.
Nick
Then the forum name gets changed to www.hicostbuilders.co.uk but then again looking at some peoples builds maybe it ought to be in use already.
Alan...
|
|
|
Ninehigh
|
| posted on 15/6/09 at 08:45 PM |
|
|
Most mondeo engines fit to a rwd box too iirc, I was thinking about it this morning when I walked past an old st24
Also have you ever skidded a fwd car? You see the tree coming, plus you look like a berk doing understeer, like you didn't think of turning the
wheel...
|
|
|
m1kbee
|
| posted on 15/6/09 at 08:47 PM |
|
|
Right, answer posts in order.
alistairolsen: Are the Atom plans available for free on the internet or less than £5 in a book?
Steve G: I could possibly make the front a bit wider to accommodate the extra width. Wider cars usually handle a bit better in my experience but it
would mean I would have to custom make the entire front end.
Benzine: Civic Type R isn't too bad for FWD.
Steve G: I've always fancied doing an adult Kettercar with a moped engine.
James: See first rply to Steve G (sorry, couldn't be bothered typing it all again)
speedyxjs: Any idea which cars have those or where I could get one cheap. I know the Noble M15 has one but if I had one of those I wouldn't be
ripping it apart.
iank: first bit: far too technical for me.
Second bit: its a matter of getting the plans rather than buying the kit.
nstrug: 1- I have no intention on driving fast, more like cruising along steadily.
2- I've only driven 2 RWD cars. My mates BMW 318 E36 - not bad and my bosses Smart car - God awful. Worst car I have ever driven.
3- Need the prices of those to drop below £500 before i can consider them.
And finally,
FEZ1025: Lol. Hicostbuilders :-)
|
|
|
Ninehigh
|
| posted on 15/6/09 at 08:58 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by m1kbee
Right, answer posts in order.
alistairolsen: Are the Atom plans available for free on the internet or less than £5 in a book?
Steve G: I could possibly make the front a bit wider to accommodate the extra width. Wider cars usually handle a bit better in my experience but it
would mean I would have to custom make the entire front end.
Steve G: I've always fancied doing an adult Kettercar with a moped engine.
Need the prices of those to drop below £500 before i can consider them.
1. Build a mid engined 7 and forget to do the panels.
2. Doing that would probably mean making it the same width of the wheelbase
3. A what?
4. One word, autotrader. You can get a bmw for £500...
|
|
|
nstrug
|
| posted on 15/6/09 at 09:26 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by FEZ1025
quote:
Originally posted by nstrug
There are plenty of RWD donors out there - the MX-5 being the obvious one, but also various Nissans, the Honda S2000 and of course every BMW and
Mercedes. Remember that the BMW 3-series outsells the Ford Mondeo.
Nick
Then the forum name gets changed to www.hicostbuilders.co.uk but then again looking at some peoples builds maybe it ought to be in use already.
Alan...
Why exactly? Ok, the S2000 is going to be an expensive donor due to its rarity, but Mk1 MX-5s and 4-pot E30s and E36s are easier to find than Sierra
donors these days.
Nick
|
|
|
m1kbee
|
| posted on 17/6/09 at 08:18 PM |
|
|
Andy, BMs on autotrader for less than £500 have done over 150,000 miles.
Kettercar:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ketter-Childs-Go-Cart_W0QQitemZ130312678391QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Toys_Games_Outdoor_Toys_Bikes_Ride_Ons_LE?hash=item1e573dabf7&a
mp;_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A17%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
|
|
|
Ninehigh
|
| posted on 24/6/09 at 02:38 PM |
|
|
You could always just buy a
NEW engine
at a later date (clicky on the NEW)
|
|
|
Liam
|
| posted on 24/6/09 at 04:40 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by m1kbee
Andy, BMs on autotrader for less than £500 have done over 150,000 miles.
And how many miles have all the old clapped out escorts, cortinas and sierras that made the first generation of cheap donors done? Delivery miles?
Liam
|
|
|
Ninehigh
|
| posted on 24/6/09 at 06:01 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by m1kbee
Andy, BMs on autotrader for less than £500 have done over 150,000 miles.
And how many miles has the BM of Mr Round got?
|
|
|
coozer
|
| posted on 24/6/09 at 06:04 PM |
|
|
FWD engines and boxes are in front of the axle line thats why they are perfect for RWD/Midi applications.
Why not design a RWD 7 for yourself?
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
|
|
|
Ninehigh
|
| posted on 24/6/09 at 07:17 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
FWD engines and boxes are in front of the axle line thats why they are perfect for RWD/Midi applications.
Why not design a RWD 7 for yourself?
I was told not to do that!
I was going to shorten the nose a bit in place of a larger back end. Thing is can the fuel tank go in the front?
|
|
|
m1kbee
|
| posted on 29/6/09 at 09:51 PM |
|
|
Roundy's has got over 100k on it which is why it's got all the new parts.
coozer: I'm no good at design. Got a D in graphic design in CDT in school.
|
|
|
FEZ1025
|
| posted on 30/6/09 at 05:42 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
I was going to shorten the nose a bit in place of a larger back end. Thing is can the fuel tank go in the front?
No reason why the tank cannot go up front, just has to follow the rules about protection, leakage & firewalls.
Alan...
|
|
|
MikeRJ
|
| posted on 30/6/09 at 07:15 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by m1kbee
Due to the increasing unavailability of rear wheel drive cars, can anyone see any problems in using a front wheel drive donor car and having my Locost
FWD?
The answer is if you want something that looks somewhat like a Lotus 7 and has similar dynamics, then I can foresee many, mostly unsolvable,
problems.
For a good way to use a FWD drivetrain, have a look at the Sylva Riot, or the very pretty
Spectre.
|
|
|
clbarclay
|
| posted on 17/7/09 at 11:55 PM |
|
|
Just as fwd have become more popular then rwd cars in recent years, mid engine rwd kit cars are set to become more popular than front engine rwd.
I would be surprised if Haynes didn't released another book for a mid engined alternative to the roadster.
I do like the look of the Riot.
[Edited on 17/7/09 by clbarclay]
|
|
|
Ninehigh
|
| posted on 18/7/09 at 12:04 AM |
|
|
Good point, make a shorter nosecone for a larger back end so you sit more forward relative to the car.
Mind you the powers that be are working on a single seater that's a middy
|
|
|
