PSpirine
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 03:37 PM |
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E36 Donor for Haynes
In the middle of stripping down the 97 318ti outside, I thought.. why not use it as a donor for my haynes roadster planned build?
Given I've got it already, would it make sense to use any/all bits from it? I'm willing to mix and match obviously if I need to get sierra
uprights etc.
Anyone here used a BMW donor for a haynes roadster that can identify what exactly needs changing/doing to make it work compared to a sierra-based
design? I'll be building the chassis and wishbones etc. so can easily make adjustments.
Thanks,
Pavs
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daniel mason
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 03:51 PM |
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others have used the bmw as a donor but not sure about on a haynes? no reason why you cant use engine,gearbox, prop shaft,diff,steering wheel and
column,clocks,switches and wiring etc. especially if your building it yourself. adjustments can be made along the way!
obviously the prop will need shortening but it will be way cheaper than buying new. mine cost £60 to have shortened!
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AdrianH
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 04:24 PM |
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There was several posts on using the BMW in a Haynes at one point, not sure if before or after someone deleted several hundred posts on the forum!
There were also mummers that the book would be updated to include BMW gear at one point.
Being a bit wider then the standard locost the engine would fit but the mods needed for the gearbox etc. would also need to be looked at.
Have you asked on the Haynes forum and see what response you get, I bet there are some trying it:
If you look at this thread http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=4393
there is someone going along with a 318 engine.
Have fun
Adrian
[Edited on 13-3-11 by AdrianH]
Why do I have to make the tools to finish the job? More time then money.
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stevebubs
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 06:04 PM |
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Take a look at the GKD site for what you will be likely to need....their 7 is based on the E36..
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cucala
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 07:10 PM |
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Hi,
I'm building a somehow haynes e36 316i based.
All major components are out of the car by now and trying to use engine, gearbox, differential, wire harnesses, steering ( depowered, don't know
how by now) and front uprights.
Even we want to re-use and transform the seats.
For rear uprights, I'm trying to use BMW 118d or 116i uprights as I think they have same teeth number and diameter, I hope just to bolt on.
Suspension arms will be homebuild.
Sorry for my poor english”
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PSpirine
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 07:41 PM |
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Thanks all,
Cucala, that sounds like a good project, make sure to keep us updated with your progress!
A bit of research suggests that my car has an E30 axle (as all compacts do) - not sure how this will affect components. Is the diff weaker? I'm
not too fussed with compatibility as obviously I can make whatever diff mounts I need.
I'll have a better idea of what's useable once it's off the car. Incidentally, some of the suspension/driveline components on this
thing are HUGE (e.g. rear brakes). Maybe selling off the trim bits will be enough to pay for a sierra donor!
Pavs
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rodgling
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 07:52 PM |
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I'm building (have built, pretty much) a GKD car with a 328 engine at the moment. The donor bits work well in a 7 type car, although the gearbox
is pretty big and I suspect the chassis design had to compromise space in the pedal box area for this reason. Spares are easy to obtain and fairly
cheap, by and large. The 328 is a tight fit but the 4 cylinder engines would probably go into a book chassis without modification (I think the GKD
6-cylinder variant has a slightly longer engine bay), I'm not sure you could get the straight sixes into an unmodified book chassis.
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Bare
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 02:09 AM |
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Note that Caterham is moving to the BMW diff units. Being seen as a worthwhile improvement over the Whiny/Clunky Sierra ones, despite their weight
disadvantage
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cucala
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 08:21 AM |
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Hi again,
we have put engine, gear box and diff inside. You can find some photos here:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22881486/IMG_0079_2.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22881486/IMG_0080.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22881486/IMG_0088.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22881486/IMG_0097.jpg
there was room enough for them but because of the sump, we had to push them forward just to find the right height for it.
We think about a chassis heigth of 117 and a sump height of 77 to 87 mm. Too low for the road use??
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Bare
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| posted on 2/4/11 at 05:50 PM |
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Just out of curiosity:
How much does a 318 engine weigh? Trans as well? Differential unit?
Seems these engines are cheaper and certainly more plentiful than Toyota ones at the wreckers..
Granted not as desirable, but if cheap and not? too heavy a real possible choice.
EDIT:
went to the GKD site. their cars are heavier than I would have thought for a "seven' type. BMW bits
don't seem the entire source of the weight
[Edited on 2/4/11 by Bare]
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franky
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| posted on 2/4/11 at 06:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Bare
Just out of curiosity:
How much does a 318 engine weigh? Trans as well? Differential unit?
Seems these engines are cheaper and certainly more plentiful than Toyota ones at the wreckers..
Granted not as desirable, but if cheap and not? too heavy a real possible choice.
EDIT:
went to the GKD site. their cars are heavier than I would have thought for a "seven' type. BMW bits
don't seem the entire source of the weight
[Edited on 2/4/11 by Bare]
They're the same weight as any other 7 type car. The 6 cyl units come in at about 120kg, however the bellhousing/box(5sp) is about 17kg
lighter than a type 9.
A 318 engine is a light tuneable engine. you can get upto about 230bhp N/A out of them, like any engine with a large budget of course.
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Bare
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| posted on 3/4/11 at 03:22 AM |
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Welll ...when I read the stats fronm the GKD site. I read that the Legend (4cyl) was in the 600/750 kg range.
A wee bit porky?? I thought, hardly in the Caterham R500 range.. is it??.
And from the posted weights of the Beemer Bits.. not believing it's entirely down to the donor either
Did I read their spec sheets wrongly then?
[Edited on 3/4/11 by Bare]
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franky
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| posted on 3/4/11 at 07:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Bare
Welll ...when I read the stats fronm the GKD site. I read that the Legend (4cyl) was in the 600/750 kg range.
A wee bit porky?? I thought, hardly in the Caterham R500 range.. is it??.
And from the posted weights of the Beemer Bits.. not believing it's entirely down to the donor either
Did I read their spec sheets wrongly then?
[Edited on 3/4/11 by Bare]
Not quite, I think the demo car with screen/heater/padded seats and carpets is 600kg. So hardly r500 weight but its not the same type of car. and
about 1/10th of the build cost. Also caterham quote a dry weight, add 40ltrs of fuel, 6 ltrs of oil, 6lts of water.
The 6cyl chassis is heavier than the 4cyl due to extra chassis bracing, when you look at the chassis there's more going on than a book
chassis.
The Diff is heavy as its steel cased however Caterham are now using them so they can't be bad
[Edited on 3/4/11 by franky]
[Edited on 3/4/11 by franky]
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PSpirine
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| posted on 3/4/11 at 07:54 AM |
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I'll see if I can pick up some argos bathroom scales and weigh the tranny and engine on them today as they're both out the car.
The only problem I see with the engine is you'll have to modify the sump/pickup line if you're not going to install it lying down on its
side like it is in the beamer.
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franky
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| posted on 3/4/11 at 08:17 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by PSpirine
I'll see if I can pick up some argos bathroom scales and weigh the tranny and engine on them today as they're both out the car.
The only problem I see with the engine is you'll have to modify the sump/pickup line if you're not going to install it lying down on its
side like it is in the beamer.
I think you'd run into other problems if you don't install it at the correct angle. I Think caterham quote their standard 2.0 duratec at
107kg dressed.
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Bare
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| posted on 6/4/11 at 04:50 PM |
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OK, thanks, The weights I read were 600 750 and.. no.. identification on Which ..4 cyl... car they were for.
Odd to be so ambiguous on a 'sales' site though.
Beemer engine designs are (were?) of odd/old design :-) they have a chain driven oil pump hanging below the crank, whereas most engines currently
have their pumps concentric on the end of the crankshaft... neater, simpler, many fewer parts.
Beemer setup works fine , but it makes fooling with the sumps problematic.
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MBrown
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| posted on 2/4/14 at 06:51 PM |
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Hi All, I have noticed a few people have built BMW haynes roadsters. I am at the point of considering suspension/uprights and was wondering what other
BMW builders did?
I am considering buying the sierra uprights and wishbones for front and back as per the Haynes Roadster book. Then just modify the rear half shafts
from the BMW/get some made to work into the rear uprights, would that work?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated, I did search but couldn't find if anyone had done this!
Many thanks
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cucala
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| posted on 2/4/14 at 08:02 PM |
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Hi,
I used bmw front uprights and for the rear, the same as Haynes book.
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MBrown
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| posted on 2/4/14 at 08:56 PM |
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Awesome thank you, did you use e36 or e30 front and did you have to modify the bmw front upright or the front wishbone?
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cucala
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| posted on 3/4/14 at 07:59 PM |
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I used e36. I have uploaded some photos for you.
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MBrown
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| posted on 3/4/14 at 08:28 PM |
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Thank you, those pics will be very helpful, chassis just about done so suspension and uprights will be next 
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MBrown
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| posted on 1/5/14 at 07:24 PM |
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I now have a 328 engine etc! Courtesy of Blake - Blakep82 (thank you so much) who kindly brought it down on his way past last weekend. Can't
believe how big the engine is, from initial measurements it should fit the Haynes book chassis (minus the bracing bar going right across the engine
bay which I'll figure out Y bracing either side of the engine) but measuring and getting it in is quite different so should prove interesting!
I've stripped the main ancillaries off the engine (few more bits to go), but will then clean it, paint it then try and fit once I get hold of a
crane.
SteveWallace has kindly given me his wiring diagrams that he figured out for the engine and what you need for a haynes/kit car etc.
I've put a couple of pics on of the build and will continue putting some up as begin using the BMW parts for ppl to consider as a BMW donor
could be easier to source now than a sierra
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Nickp
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| posted on 1/5/14 at 07:51 PM |
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Here's what I chose to do do to squeeze an M52 in-
It's still tight and the engine needs to be pushed back as far as possible, I went for 10mm clearance between the rear of the cyl head and the
bar across the bulkhead.
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MBrown
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| posted on 1/5/14 at 08:05 PM |
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Thanks for the pic of the alteration to fit the M52 gearbox. I see you used the sierra front hubs, did you use the sierra diff or a BMW one?
I see that you still had a bit of clearance at the front on the engine, I know its best for weight distribution to be as far back as poss but were
there any other reasons you didn't put it forward a little bit more? Can't quite see what clearance you have from the front of the engine
to the bracing bars at the top front of the engine bay.
Is your chassis as per the Haynes Roadster spec (except the modified parts to fit the gearbox)?
Hopefully mine will be as neat as yours once installed!
Many thanks,
Mark
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Nickp
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| posted on 1/5/14 at 10:05 PM |
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It'll be std Haynes inc Sierra diff etc apart from the mods to get the M52 + box in.
There wasn't much space left at the front corner of the cyl head tbh once in place.
I got to this point and had to stop to build a bigger garage but hope to start again later this year
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