DaveFJ
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| posted on 6/8/03 at 11:12 AM |
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Rover 827?
Just been reading about the very lovely but very expensive Phantom Vortex:
www.phantom.uk.com
And note that it uses the honda 2.7 V6 from a rover 827... anyone have any experience of this engine? any thoughts on its possible use in a locost?
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 6/8/03 at 11:21 AM |
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I think its locost application was talked about a while back, much chat about sherpa gearboxes AFAICR.
(my first accrothingy - hope its right!)
I have experience of the engine as far as the auto box goes, the torque of the engine shreds them with monotonous regularity
PS Keep to the correct grade of oil or the hyrdotappets will sound like a submachine gun in a few miles, you can cure this (sometimes) by adding
flushing oil and running a t 3000 rpm with no load for 20 minutes.
[Edited on 6/8/03 by Mark Allanson]
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KingGreg
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| posted on 6/8/03 at 11:43 AM |
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Hi Proto,
Was on the track recently with a Dutton with the Honda 2.7 V6.
About 180 bhp, and went really well!
Not sure of the engine bay dimensions in a Locost. But it fitted a real treat in the Dutton. Probably a few minor problems with steering column,
exhaust manifolds and air/fuel regulator because of the extra width, but guaranteed to be better than the Pinto and a bit lighter!
All the best.
Greg
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JoelP
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| posted on 6/8/03 at 12:42 PM |
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i have a 2ltr turbo engine from a rover 800, i was thinking of using this in a mid/rear engined design. plenty of poke (its the vitesse sport engine,
200bhp) and probably lighter than the V6 lump.
Is the 827 a rear drive or would you spin it and mate a new G box?
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mackie
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| posted on 6/8/03 at 12:52 PM |
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It's transverse mounted in the Rover afaik. Really nice engine apparently, cost Rover a bomb to buy from Honda at the time. A Rover chap told me
it was £7k just for the engine or something.
How much can you pick em up for these days?
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 6/8/03 at 01:55 PM |
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superb engine,goes like a rocket,bit wide and most will be nackered by now,if you can pick up a quiet one and make an adapter to fit a t5 or bmw box
would make a real flying machine
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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ChrisW
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| posted on 6/8/03 at 02:33 PM |
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Isn't this the engine Liam is using? If so he may be the chap to speak to - seemed very knowledgable on the subject when I met him!
Chris
My gaff my rules
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andyps
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| posted on 6/8/03 at 02:50 PM |
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You can pick up an complete Rover 827 for anything from £50 upwards - they were fitted into the 800 for most of its life until replaced with the K
series V6 engine. Generally considered a bullet proof engine - easily see 200k miles with proper servicing. They were all transversely mounted front
wheel drive.
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 6/8/03 at 07:50 PM |
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liam is using this engine.
I wonder however if you can get the 2.5 v6 from an older cavalier - they also made about 170hp, and was a great engine in the cavalier I had for a few
months.
look at an 827 in a scrappie. the engine is pretty wide at the bottom - Liam will tell ya if its doable or not.....
atb
steve
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 6/8/03 at 10:16 PM |
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Cheers guys
This was purely speculative. Intend to use my pinto to start with and then look to modifications post SVA. It's just nice once in a while to
daydream about the future.......
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craig1410
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 12:14 PM |
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The 2.7 honda engine is a very good engine but it does have flaws such as sticking valves and noisy tappets. One thing to be aware of is that I
believe it rotates the opposite way from most engines so be aware when making up a suitable axle/gearbox combo.
I have a Vitesse (820 Turbo) and also thought of using this engine but it is very very heavy. The V6 may be lighter in fact. Robin Hood engineering
use the Turbo (T-Series) engine in one of their cars and may be able to supply an adapter plate. My engine is overboosted and "should" be
putting out around 240BHP when on full song at 13PSI boost. Very torquey and powerful engine if you can excuse the obligatory cylinder head oil
leak...
HTH,
Craig.
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mackie
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 12:38 PM |
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Unless you use the Klinger gasket which is supposed to cure the problem..
Just had a look at your diary Craig. Nice to know someone is doing the same as us, expect lots of questions over the coming months  Have you looked
much for single carb kits? RPi's seem a little on the pricey side for the Weber 4 barrel, but it does include everything.
Just out of interest, are you planning on using the standard exhaust manifolds and have you identified any problems fitting anciliaries into the
engine bay?
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timf
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 01:10 PM |
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weber/edelbrock 500cfm carb try
http://www.roadcraftuk.co.uk/index01.htm
for a price IIRC about £300 all in price
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Metal Hippy
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 01:15 PM |
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The 2.7 rotates the correct way.....
I know that from various chats with Liam in Messenger...
Cock off or cock on. You choose.
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mackie
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 01:15 PM |
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Cheers for that timf.
I've been looking around for an American V8 specialist. I've had the idea of one day doing an MX5 V8 conversion using a Ford 302..
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Noodle
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 02:00 PM |
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quote:
I wonder however if you can get the 2.5 v6 from an older cavalier - they also made about 170hp, and was a great engine in the cavalier I had
for a few months.
Don't bother. Get it from an Omega (same engine) 'cause it's got a RWD box already on it. The wife's got one. Quite smooth
(that's the engine) feels a bit torque-free in a heavy Omega though.
Neil.
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Simon
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 02:17 PM |
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timf/mackie,
For Weber/Holley carb/manifold prices more like £550
See:
http://www.rpiv8.com/offers.htm#weber
Have a look at my archive pics for RV8 fitment.
Noodle - had an 827 Vitesse - superb engine - cambelt s/be changed at 90k miles.
Never let us down in the two years we owned it.
ATB
Simon
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timf
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 02:51 PM |
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try the people i gave the link for they are the main importers and will under cut rpi etc quite considerably
i know the normal price is about 550 whats the cost of a phone call.
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mackie
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 03:13 PM |
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Simon,
Just out of interest, do the twin SU carbs stick up much above the bonnet line on yours and have you made the chassis taller?
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Simon
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 03:31 PM |
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mackie,
Chassis is standard height, but 4" wider. SU's way above bonnet line, so not sure whether to go for Holley/Weber - it's a
probability.
Engine quite low in chassis (and set quite well back) - so should have about 3" clearance under sump.
ATB
Simon
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craig1410
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 09:31 PM |
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Mackie,
Sorry for the delay in replying, I didn't get any emails to indicate that replies had been posted to this thread. I guess I must have forgotten
to tick the box...
Yes, feel free to ask any questions you like although I may not yet know all the answers... As for the questions you have already asked:
1. Klinger gasket fitted by myself in October last year and head skimmed at same time. I think it is holding okay for now, fingers crossed!!
2. Carb kits are a bit expensive but I'd like the Weber 500 if I possibly can afford it. I also want to investigate remote mounting of the
SU's to reduce required headroom but I'm not in a position to evaluate this yet. I thought loosly of moving the carbs outwards, downwards
and turned through 90 degrees. I would then make some Naca ducts in the bonnet to feed air to some K&N stub filters. Throttle linkages might be a
challenge...
3. Again I'm not sure whether to make my own exhaust manifolds from one of those maifold kits that Rally Design and Demontweeks do or whether to
use the standard manifolds. If I do use standard manifolds then the P6 ones are centre exit I think and should be easier to route the output pipe
from. SD1 manifolds will direct the output pipe right up your trouser leg...
HTH,
Craig.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 10:02 PM |
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I wouldnt say the car I drove was torque laden, but it revved really freely and smooth.
I was driving it once at 130, and wondered why it developed a misfire. It was actually still in fourth gear and was on the rev limiter and I hadnt
noticed! - thats how quiet and smooth it was.
Old V6 cavaliers (L reg or so) must be quite affordable now as a runaround - lots of fun for the money - a wolf in sheeps clothing.
atb
steve
quote:
Originally posted by Noodle
quote:
I wonder however if you can get the 2.5 v6 from an older cavalier - they also made about 170hp, and was a great engine in the cavalier I had
for a few months.
Don't bother. Get it from an Omega (same engine) 'cause it's got a RWD box already on it. The wife's got one. Quite smooth
(that's the engine) feels a bit torque-free in a heavy Omega though.
Neil.
[Edited on 8/8/03 by stephen_gusterson]
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Jasper
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| posted on 9/8/03 at 02:00 PM |
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The engine I would love to use in a mid-engine beast would be the Volvo T5 2.3 turbo. Drive one at the moment - 225bhp standard (but front wheel
drive) and pulls like a train, good for +150mph. Easily and cheaply (£600) tuneble to 300bhp too. Probably not many scappies about tho'.
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JoelP
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| posted on 9/8/03 at 02:36 PM |
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probably one of the most powerful FWDs. Sheer lunacy really trying to lay it through the front shoes... try an auction if u feel flush, i see them
occationally going thru, but i'm sure there must be a cheaper older engine, though i cant think of any with that power. like i said before,
rover ti engine is a good start (i got one for 800 on a P) and a simple fish tank flow regulator (£1.50) can be used as an ajustable boost valve, 230
bph if de cat and airconed....
as i have a smashed one i'm definitely using that next.
It also opens up the possibility of twin engined or 4WS, as the back hubs will be complete with steering arms!
imagine 430bhp in a 700kg car! with only 2 grand in engines...
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craig1410
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| posted on 9/8/03 at 07:37 PM |
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Joelp,
The Rover T-Series can go up to over 260BHP and perhaps even 280BHP with all the right tweaks. If this is done on an engine with the Mahle (harder)
pistons which were fitted to earlier enginer then it should be reliable too. The weak spot on the T-series was always the gearbox which would of
course be getting replaced by an RWD or mid-engined setup anyway.
Check out Dave Pallant's site for more info on Rover tuning. In particular look at http://www.davep1.freeserve.co.uk/rover/tech/boost1.htm
/>
and
http://www.davep1.freeserve.co.uk/rover/tech/turbo1.htm
The main site is at http://www.davep1.freeserve.co.uk/rover/800.htm
Oh, one other thing, make sure you change the cam belt at the recommended intervals on the T-Series as it will self destruct if it breaks. This is an
easy job as it has an automatic adjuster to maintain tension.
HTH,
Craig.
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