twybrow
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| posted on 23/3/13 at 10:04 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Norfolkluegojnr
quote:
Originally posted by teegray19
Lets all blame china.
Problem solved!
Which argument turns the sun up?
I don't feel we'll enough informed to comment, and I bet most people know nothing other than the propaganda from tabloid rags, and bob
dole.
On the face of it I'm all for protecting our environment, but this one stinks of profiteering through scaremongering - a standard political
stance these days.
Someone give me hard evidence either way and I'll gladly get behind you.
Or let's just blame china.
I am curious - who is profiteering? The governments? The oil companies? Please enlighten me! 
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Jasper
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| posted on 23/3/13 at 10:25 AM |
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I still find it utterly staggering that so called educated people still think climate change caused by humans is a myth!!! Maybe it's too much
reading of the Daily Mail :0 So yes, lets keep it in the curriculum.
While most of us on here won't be affected by it, our children and grandchildren most certainly will. I'm sure they will look back at what
we did as a society with a mixture of angry and incredulity.
As others have said though what we do in the UK will change nothing as long as China and India keep on their current course, though we can hardly
encourage them to do better unless we are doing something ourselves.
The only way our society as we know it will be saved will be if scientists come up with a way to deal with it, as the politicians certainly never
will.
If you're not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room.
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Norfolkluegojnr
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| posted on 23/3/13 at 10:30 AM |
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Supposed green energy companies. Wind farms, solar energy panels etc.
Why subsidise it if it works so well? Wind turbines are notoriously rubbish yet we continue to build them...
Oil companies can continue to scare the world with the lack of resources to keep their prices high - energy companies can charge more and more whilst
we foot the bill for a poor infrastructure and having to import electricity and gas.
Governments tax us all and reap the benefits of high prices and scared public bodies.
It's all connected. Either that or no sleep from a 12 month old is turning me into the 'Aliens' meme guy.
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Fred W B
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| posted on 23/3/13 at 11:00 AM |
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Just think, if there had been an enviromental lobby around at the time the Industrial Revolution got started none of us would have cars to drive at
all.
Cheers
Fred W B
You can do it quickly. You can do it cheap. You can do it right. – Pick any two.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 23/3/13 at 11:35 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
I still find it utterly staggering that so called educated people still think climate change caused by humans is a myth!!! Maybe it's too much
reading of the Daily Mail
OTOH some people gain their knowledge by actually checking the results of measurements/experiments rather than naively believing the spin that is
published in the media, or following fashionable opinion.
I do find it amusing how lay persons confidently state global warming is FACT! when so many climate scientists are far less convinced
If it was cut and dried, where would have been no reason at all for the numerous cases of falsifying/manipulating climate data that has come to light
over the last few years (judithgate, sea level, treemometers, etc). The numbers should speak for themselves, and if the results are inconclusive it
means that either it's not happening or the methods are flawed. Unfortunately the whole debate is poisoned by politics and people with agendas
who would rather lie to acheive those agendas than actually practice sound scientific methods.
I have no issues at all with children being made aware of the possibilities, and of the ongoing research, but I would be appalled if they were being
force fed "facts" which are no more than opinions, the result of bad science and the will of out political leaders.
[Edited on 23/3/13 by MikeRJ]
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Jasper
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| posted on 23/3/13 at 11:45 AM |
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Climate change, religion, CEC or BEC, Apple or Android, politics - always guaranteed to stir up a good argument
Some good reading for anybody interested in the climate change debate:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Vanishing-Face-Gaia-Warning/dp/0141039256/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364038813&sr=8-1
James Lovelock is the epitome of the genius British scientist working in a shed - he came up with the instrument to measure CFC's that lead to
the Nobel prize for the discovery of the ozone hole and the banning of CFC's. It's a very good if very depressing read. He hates the hippy
greenies and politicians that love wind farms etc, he's a proponent of self sufficiency in energy through nuclear power.
[Edited on 23/3/13 by Jasper]
If you're not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 23/3/13 at 12:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
Climate change, religion, CEC or BEC, Apple or Android, politics - always guaranteed to stir up a good argument
Some good reading for anybody interested in the climate change debate:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Vanishing-Face-Gaia-Warning/dp/0141039256/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364038813&sr=8-1
James Lovelock is the epitome of the genius British scientist working in a shed - he came up with the instrument to measure CFC's that lead to
the Nobel prize for the discovery of the ozone hole and the banning of CFC's. It's a very good if very depressing read. He hates the hippy
greenies and politicians that love wind farms etc, he's a proponent of self sufficiency in energy through nuclear power.
[Edited on 23/3/13 by Jasper]
And just to provide some balance, the same author also admits he was
being alarmist when he wrote
that book.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 23/3/13 at 12:10 PM |
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It seems climate change fills the "God shaped hole" in people which is why no sensible debate can be held on it. Fail to follow the
party line and you don't get a research grant, publish data that supports any other possible explanation for climate change (such as sun
spots) and you get nailed to the floor and stamped on. Remember what happened at the University of East Anglia ? where data that didn't fit
the alarmist line was either deleted or conveniently unavailable.
It all reminds me of the Catholic Church's treatment of Galileo Galilei
The fact it seems this planet is going through a shift in weather patterns it has many times in the past and will continue to do in future. Is this
change due to man made global warming ? Well we know there is a warming but the hard science appears to show the man made contribution is tiny.
It was not so long ago that climate scientist were very concerned over global cooling due to particulate air pollution.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Jasper
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| posted on 23/3/13 at 12:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
Climate change, religion, CEC or BEC, Apple or Android, politics - always guaranteed to stir up a good argument
Some good reading for anybody interested in the climate change debate:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Vanishing-Face-Gaia-Warning/dp/0141039256/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364038813&sr=8-1
James Lovelock is the epitome of the genius British scientist working in a shed - he came up with the instrument to measure CFC's that lead to
the Nobel prize for the discovery of the ozone hole and the banning of CFC's. It's a very good if very depressing read. He hates the hippy
greenies and politicians that love wind farms etc, he's a proponent of self sufficiency in energy through nuclear power.
[Edited on 23/3/13 by Jasper]
And just to provide some balance, the same author also admits he was
being alarmist when he wrote
that book.
Thank god for that!! (actually, maybe not god.......)
If you're not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 23/3/13 at 04:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
I think it should continued to be taught as part of a wider syllabus. It is not like they are going to do a dedicated 'climate change
class' - it surely must have been taught as part of other subjects. I think it is important to teach our kids about climate change, so they know
what to call it when they blame us for the consequences in 50 years time....
It is real, and it is happening, and it is our fault - FACT!
Ooh just dropped the F bomb!
There is no fact in science... However it may well be our fault (just as much as it may well be natural)
However taking steps to reduce our influence is a damn good idea
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RK
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| posted on 23/3/13 at 09:22 PM |
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Don't worry, God will take care of it.
This would be ludicrous if not so widely believed. I cannot for the life of me understand why this is such a polorising subject. Just because I like
driving cars, tinkering with them, and generally being environmentally irresponsible, doesn't mean it's a good thing. Accept what you are,
but don't deny it. We are all to blame.
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whitestu
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| posted on 23/3/13 at 09:43 PM |
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quote:
Don't worry, God will take care of it.
This would be ludicrous if not so widely believed. I cannot for the life of me understand why this is such a polorising subject. Just because I like
driving cars, tinkering with them, and generally being environmentally irresponsible, doesn't mean it's a good thing. Accept what you are,
but don't deny it. We are all to blame
I drove a Prius for 4 years so I can do what I like now.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 23/3/13 at 10:49 PM |
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Should we reduce our use of fossil fuels? Yes for many reasons.
Is global warming the most pressing of those reasons ? Probably not.
Can we trust the findings of all climate change scientists ? On past form definitely not.
Are we going about reducing our dependence on fossil fuels the right way? No generating electricity from wind or solar is an expensive joke,
hydro is reaching the limit of available sites, the only way left is build more nuclear and use it more efficiently.
The behaviour of the climate change lobby has not been constructive it has not practised good science.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6679082/Climate-change-this-is-the-worst-scientific-scandal-of-our-generation.html
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 24/3/13 at 12:35 AM |
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Why was I shovelling snow off the drive this morning? Just asking.
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Slimy38
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| posted on 24/3/13 at 07:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by swanny
The move back toward the need to parrot facts also somehow fails to take account of the explosion of readily available mobile information. Do I need
to have memorised the capital of Botswana? I'd argue not when I can whip my phone out and google it. Survival for wealthy countries like ours
will more likely be down to us creating bright, creative, collaborative, inventive people, rather than people who can just recite a poem or do their
times tables.
[Edited on 23/3/13 by swanny]
That is very true, there is more information on the web than any one human being could possibly possess. Unfortunately a lot of people lack the basic
skills to be able to access that information and interpret it correctly. As an example, I had the misfortune to visit a Burger King while their tills
were down, I asked for two £1.99 burgers and the waitress needed a calculator to add them up and figure out the change from a five pound note. And we
all see the thousands of posts where the author doesn't know the difference between there, their and they're. If basic maths and english
are beyond most people, what hope have they got for dealing with a subject like climate change. Tell them the average temperature will rise 10% and
they'd have no idea what that actually means.
So I agree with Ali, this type of lesson is better replaced with the three R's as they were/are known, bring back at least some 'parrot
facts', and leave the climate change research to Mr Google.
[Edited on 24/3/13 by Slimy38]
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rf900rush
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| posted on 24/3/13 at 09:45 AM |
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Climate change has been here since the planet was formed, and will never stop.
Our problem is greed, that's all of us. When our intelligence is greater than our greed , then we may truly have chance to look after our
planet.
Until we advance enough our children have far more important things to learn.
Another question.
How does a teacher who drives a Toyota Prius teach this subject
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twybrow
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| posted on 11/4/13 at 01:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
Why was I shovelling snow off the drive this morning? Just asking.
More 'freak weather events' - a side effect of a shifting climate.
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twybrow
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| posted on 11/4/13 at 01:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
quote:
Originally posted by swanny
The move back toward the need to parrot facts also somehow fails to take account of the explosion of readily available mobile information. Do I need
to have memorised the capital of Botswana? I'd argue not when I can whip my phone out and google it. Survival for wealthy countries like ours
will more likely be down to us creating bright, creative, collaborative, inventive people, rather than people who can just recite a poem or do their
times tables.
[Edited on 23/3/13 by swanny]
That is very true, there is more information on the web than any one human being could possibly possess. Unfortunately a lot of people lack the basic
skills to be able to access that information and interpret it correctly. As an example, I had the misfortune to visit a Burger King while their tills
were down, I asked for two £1.99 burgers and the waitress needed a calculator to add them up and figure out the change from a five pound note. And we
all see the thousands of posts where the author doesn't know the difference between there, their and they're. If basic maths and english
are beyond most people, what hope have they got for dealing with a subject like climate change. Tell them the average temperature will rise 10% and
they'd have no idea what that actually means.
So I agree with Ali, this type of lesson is better replaced with the three R's as they were/are known, bring back at least some 'parrot
facts', and leave the climate change research to Mr Google.
[Edited on 24/3/13 by Slimy38]
So we treat an entire generation like the person you met in Burger King becuase you are sure that all school children are now as thic as two short
planks, and only able to repeat 'parrot style' - that will help them remember the line they will need in later life then - 'Do you
want to supersize that mate?'
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 13/4/13 at 07:38 AM |
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It seems climate change fills the "God shaped hole" in people which is why no sensible debate can be held on it. Fail to follow the party
line and you don't get a research grant, publish data that supports any other possible explanation for climate change (such as sun spots) and
you get nailed to the floor and stamped on. Remember what happened at the University of East Anglia ? where data that didn't fit the alarmist
line was either deleted or conveniently unavailable.
It all reminds me of the Catholic Church's treatment of Galileo Galilei
The fact it seems this planet is going through a shift in weather patterns it has many times in the past and will continue to do in future. Is this
change due to man made global warming ? Well we know there is a warming but the hard science appears to show the man made contribution is tiny. It was
not so long ago that climate scientist were very concerned over global cooling due to particulate air pollution.
as above,in a nutshell,well done BT ! (not the phone co).
roll on summer! 
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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Ivan
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| posted on 13/4/13 at 08:22 AM |
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Put me down as a skeptic on climate change - haven't seen any good science on it yet.
However I am a true environmentalist by realising that mankind is most probably going to end up destroying nature and the planet in the end, unless an
asteroid intervenes, as a result we chose not to have children so we won't contribute to the overpopulation of the world in future generations
and my pollution ends with me.  As a result I can drive my 6.3 liter Cobra and other gas guzzlers with a clear conscience and ignore pleas to cut
down on electricity use.
All you breeders out there should immediately sell your cars and walk or cycle instead to compensate for the ongoing damage you and yours will do to
the planet by stripping it's resources for your survival. Oh, and take your houses off the grid as well and become Vegans to cut down on cow
gas emissions as well.
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