t.j.
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| posted on 23/3/08 at 07:49 PM |
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Relax guys,
I think it's just the parts which you have/collect make your dicisions.
If you can make an IFS you can make an IRS. Making an rear-upright is the hardest part.
If I had a Capri live-axle maybe I would have a live axle now.
As I have a sierra diff, now I have IRS.
IMO you need some(one) computer-calculation to make a suspension.
After reading and calculating a lot you will come to the conclusion: It is one BIG COMPROMISE
In the end it's important to set the car on the right track. If a live-axle is mounted straight it will felt in cornering.
If not the right springs are mounted you will notice, etc etc.
So build what you like and try to build it as accurate as possible.
Please feel free to correct my bad English, i'm still learning. Your Dutch is awfull! :-)
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britishtrident
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| posted on 23/3/08 at 08:51 PM |
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Almost any setup can be made to work and give good results within limits, even a swing axle.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Syd Bridge
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| posted on 25/3/08 at 06:09 PM |
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Originally posted by britishtrident
(1) Ferrari did build a 312 F1 mule with a beam front axle and de dion rear -- for full details and pictures see the Nicky Lauda biography. The Art
and Science of Grand Prix Driving 1977 ISBN-10: 087938049
Now tell us why it never entered a race?
(2) One of the reason they are not using it is to get the required stiffness size of the composite beam is huge, the structure of the beam is a
combination of carbon fibre spaceframe and monocoque. Although very light a structure of this size just won't work with modern aerodynamics.
Total b*llocks!! A composite beam can be made smaller and stiffer than steel. This is my bread and butter. But the misinformation
continues......
(3) A lot of highly successful racing cars such as B class Mallocks have been built either live axles or De Dion rears. The main reason De Dion
isn't widely used in passengers cars is space restrictions.
And what configuration do the current winning cars use?
(4) The bigest problem with any fully independent suspension is camber change .
Ahhh, but it can be the biggest advantage as well!!
Independent suspension can never give the correct amount of camber for all situations.
And the BS continues....
In cornering unless a very short virtual swing axle length is used a independent suspension will give excess positive camber.
Only when incorrectly designed.
In contrast a beam type axle will always give near ideal camber in a corner and under braking/acceleration.
Ahh, No. A beam will give the opposite camber change to what is normally thought of as desirable, as the car rolls in a corner.
(5) Live axles on us hotrods are based on the same tradditional A frame axle location used on the Model T and Model A Fords it was chosen by Henry
Ford mainly for its ability on rough farm tracks.
Ummm, wrong again. Most use trailing or leading radius rods or arms for longitudinal placement. And use Panhard rods or a Watts type linkage for
lateral support. Some still use the old transverse leaf spring for lateral support as well.
Whereas, some Se7en type clones still use the old A frame support in the back end, and still break them regularly, or tear the mount off the diff.
This whole suspension thing still comes up far too often.
If you're going to drive it on the road, put in what is easiest for you to make, and set it up properly.
If you want track performance, irs is THE only way to go. But don't take my word for it. Go down the pit lane at LeMans, and count all
the Dedions and live axles, then make up your mind. And if dedion was all that fantastic, then they would be used in the closed sports cars, where the
aero problems are covered by bodywork.
Have a nice day.
Cheers,
Syd.
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Mix
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| posted on 25/3/08 at 06:39 PM |
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907.....My sentiments exactly
Captain Josh.......I don't believe a word of it!!!
Ah Well! Mick
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carlknight1982
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| posted on 25/3/08 at 07:31 PM |
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thanks for all the replies guys, i never thought it would provoke such a response,
my main reasons for using the IRS set up is that i already have it
it is after all a budget car
thanks again guys ive got a copy of both books now so should be easy peasy
as for my mechanical skills im a qualified HGV engineer by trade working on massive generators for a living, infact i run the workshop, my welding is
pretty good well ive never had any problems yet
cheers guys
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