xico_ze54
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| posted on 9/9/11 at 09:55 AM |
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Ford Pinto "tak-tak" noise problem
hi
I bought a pinto engine running very well in the road, actually I think if the problem will be solved, the engine will not give more speed 
so here is the problem: the engine sounds a awfull TAK-TAK noise in cold and in hot. I withdraw the valve top cover and saw a camshaft in very bad
shape with some cams very worn and one of them with profound scratches.
I stood very surprised why this camshaft in so bad shape and valves not tunned up gave the motor a fine acceleration and also good idle running.
so I question if only with the substitution of the camshaft and rocker arms the TAK-TAK noise could disapear? or more problems could still
awaiting?
if a new camshaft is not sufficient to resolve the problem could be less expensive buy a 'new' engine I have in mind of a Cortina mk5.
any coments of Pinto's experts are wellcome.
thank you
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whitestu
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| posted on 9/9/11 at 10:04 AM |
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Pintos are known for cam wear problems and should be easily fixed with a new cam.
Stu
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 9/9/11 at 10:11 AM |
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Cam wear can be a big problem with the Pinto; this engine has a reputation for destroying it's cam lobes at quite low mileages. The problem is
often down to the oil spray bar; this has fine holes which can easily get blocked, especially if the oil has not been changed regularly.
Aftermarket performance cams can also suffer from lower than expected life due to many factors:
1) Not sufficiently hardened
2) Poor quality followers
3) Not run in correctly
4) Coil binding in the valve springs due to high lift
You obviously need to replace the cam and followers and the spray bar, but you should also check the valve lift and ensure the valve springs are
nowhere near coil bound. Use plenty of cam lube on the new cam and followers, and when starting the engine for the first time with a new cam do not
let it idle, this is especially important for high lift profiles; you must keep the RPM above 2500 for 15 minutes or so.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 9/9/11 at 10:18 AM |
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^^ as above pinto's are hard on camshafts - and some aftermarket cams are better than others...
I see Newmans even make followers with carbide inserts to suit their aftermarket cams
[Edited on 9/9/2011 by mcerd1]
[Edited on 9/9/2011 by mcerd1]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 9/9/11 at 11:44 AM |
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On the Pinto that means the camshaft
First flush out the oil system with a highly detergent flushing or just add automatic transmission fluid to the oil as a flushing additive
New cam + Followers + spray bar, and if you want change the cam belt.
Coat the cam and follower with cam lube before fitting.
When it comes to refill the sump use a synthetic or semi synthetic 10w/40 or 5w/40 or 0/w40. NB not 20w/50.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Litemoth
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| posted on 9/9/11 at 12:57 PM |
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TAK TAK = Cam = Classic Pinto issue.
If the noise was eminating from elsewhere; from the big end it would be DONK DONK or CLANK CLANK and the small end TINK TINK.
The cam's lubricating spray bars were prone to blocking (just pinholes in a pipe) and so were usually supplied with the head gasket set. The
cams are sometimes case hardened which means once the outer 'skin' has worn away the follower can wear it down at an alarming rate of
knots.
I'm not sure what stock levels and prices are like nowadays but i changed the whole head (had my pick at a local scrap yard parts store) for
less pennies than changing the cam.
Ford Pinto 2 litre Cylider head | eBay
[Edited on 9/9/11 by Litemoth]
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40inches
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| posted on 9/9/11 at 01:51 PM |
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When I replaced the camshaft on my old Pinto there was a leaflet with bedding in instructions, something like:
"When you first start the engine with new camshaft DO NOT stop the engine until the running in procedures are completed, otherwise premature
wear will occur."
The procedure was running the engine at a set RPM for a certain amount of time (Can't remember what, it was around 10 years ago).
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xico_ze54
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| posted on 9/9/11 at 02:35 PM |
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many thanks to all of you that gave me some ideas for the resolutions of the problem.
-but there is a point that still concerns me: do you think that TAK TAK noise could be produced only by the damaged camshaft?
-one of my fears is spend money exchanging the camshaft, rockers and spray bar, and check the valves and valve springs, and the noise continues, so
pushes me to spend more money in the next operation that I don't know what is, and I'm a bit afraid to stay with a complet dismantled
engine and big money to spend :\
other thing I'm still curious - and nobody said nothing about it - is that the performance of the engine is very good with all those problems.
some ideas?
thanks again.
[Edited on 9/9/11 by xico_ze54]
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snapper
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| posted on 9/9/11 at 02:37 PM |
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Cam bedding procedure is generally revs higher than 2,000 for 30 mins, you often over heat the engine so you can bed the cam in several 5 to 10 min
runs but don't let revs drop below 2000 just shut the engine straight off, cool down for 15 to 30 mins and repeat.
Cam lobes scratched and worn replace cam, followers and spray bar.
Me I like 20w50 oil as you get good oil pressure.
Sometimes an exhaust leak at the head can sound like tappets.
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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bilbo
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| posted on 9/9/11 at 02:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by xico_ze54
many thanks to all of you that gave me some ideas for the resolutions of the problem.
-but there is a point that still concerns me: do you think that TAK TAK noise could be produced only by the damaged camshaft?
-one of my fears is spend money exchanging the camshaft, rockers and spray bar, and check the valves and valve springs, and the noise continues, so
pushes me to spend more money in the next operation that I don't know what is, and I'm a bit afraid to stay with a complet dismantled
engine and big money to spend :
other thing I'm still curious - and nobody said nothing about it - is that the performance of the engine is very good with all those problems.
some ideas?
thanks again.
[Edited on 9/9/11 by xico_ze54]
The first thing I'd do, before forking out on new stuff, is to check and set the gaps between cam and followers. These often need resetting on
pintos and can make a big difference to cam noise.
---------------------------------------
Build Diary: http://bills-locost.blogspot.com/
Web Site: http://locost.atspace.com
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Litemoth
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| posted on 9/9/11 at 03:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bilbo
The first thing I'd do, before forking out on new stuff, is to check and set the gaps between cam and followers. These often need resetting on
pintos and can make a big difference to cam noise.
Give me strength.....
The man has already said...
"I withdraw the valve top cover and saw a camshaft in very bad shape with some cams very worn and one of them with profound scratches"
...and he says it's still performing well with a knackered camshaft so .......lets all move on.
TINK TINK
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bilbo
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| posted on 9/9/11 at 03:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Litemoth
quote:
Originally posted by bilbo
The first thing I'd do, before forking out on new stuff, is to check and set the gaps between cam and followers. These often need resetting on
pintos and can make a big difference to cam noise.
Give me strength.....
The man has already said...
"I withdraw the valve top cover and saw a camshaft in very bad shape with some cams very worn and one of them with profound scratches"
...and he says it's still performing well with a knackered camshaft so .......lets all move on.
TINK TINK
Sorry if I have offended 
Only trying to help - Pinto cams always look worn
---------------------------------------
Build Diary: http://bills-locost.blogspot.com/
Web Site: http://locost.atspace.com
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Litemoth
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| posted on 9/9/11 at 03:35 PM |
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Burton's say........
"Where a camshaft is being replaced due to excessive wear, it would be highly recommended to strip the engine and fully clean the
internals. Metal particles present in the sump, oil pump, bearings and oil galleries will soon play havoc with the new cam. It would also be wise to
check the oil feed system.
Low oil pressure due to a worn pump, blocked pick-up pipe or blocked oil galleries will quickly wear the new cam to the same state as the one being
replaced. In other words, before replacing a failed camshaft, make sure you find out the reasons for the failure and correct it!
Before fitting the camshaft, check that it is identical in every aspect (with the exception of the lobe profiles) to the one being replaced. Special
attention should be given to the oil feed positions and journal diameters as variations may occur during the manufacture of the engine. Also check
that any gallery bungs present on the old cam are also in place on the new cam. Do not remove the black phosphate coating from the new cam lobes.
Liberally coat both the camshaft and cam followers with a proprietary cam lube or engine assembly compound...."
Hands up who'd realistically ... "strip the engine and fully clean the internals" though?
Giving the pick-up a good clean is a good idea
[Edited on 9/9/11 by Litemoth]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 9/9/11 at 03:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Litemoth
Hands up who'd realistically ... "strip the engine and fully clean the internals" though?
probably just me 
but then my pinto's bottom end wasn't exactly locost 
<<< see the avitar 
[Edited on 9/9/2011 by mcerd1]
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Litemoth
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| posted on 9/9/11 at 03:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bilbo
quote:
Originally posted by Litemoth
quote:
Originally posted by bilbo
The first thing I'd do, before forking out on new stuff, is to check and set the gaps between cam and followers. These often need resetting on
pintos and can make a big difference to cam noise.
Give me strength.....
The man has already said...
"I withdraw the valve top cover and saw a camshaft in very bad shape with some cams very worn and one of them with profound scratches"
...and he says it's still performing well with a knackered camshaft so .......lets all move on.
TINK TINK
Sorry if I have offended
Only trying to help - Pinto cams always look worn
Not at all.......I apologise. It looks as if i'm being sharp - it's just looks that way in writing...i'm honestly not.
I just think that lots of us have been through this with this engine and to those of us who've been there, the cure is obvious. I appreciate
cars can always catch you out but i doubt very much it's anything else in this case. He's looking for something else that maybe wrong but
my policy is start with the obvious. If you can get a head already fitted with a new cam and spray bar for £50 quid (see link above) then .......
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xico_ze54
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| posted on 9/9/11 at 03:59 PM |
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... If you can get a head already fitted with a new cam and spray bar for £50 quid (see link above) then .......
the problem is just he sells in the 'pick-up' system. I can't make a journey to Wales to buy whatever it was
if the man could send me the head by courrier we could have a deal. I already sent him a post. lets see...
one thing nobody yet respond to me: how about the performance still very good with the camshaft that bad and TAK noising?
cheers
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