Andi
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 09:12 AM |
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welder saving options
I am by no means an experienced welder, and I do not intend to do any "pretty" or serious welds.
Just a few projects and household chores.
I know that gasless welders are not most peoples cup of tea, but not having to buy gas is obviously a big plus.
However the gasless wire seems mighty expensive and so my question is would something like this work out any cheaper
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/mig151en-turbo-no-gas-mig-welder/
Thanks
Andi
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 09:24 AM |
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Gasless is really pants ,only of any use if you weld outside,i use pub gas (co2) on mine,bit spitty but works well and is quite cheap.
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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mark chandler
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 10:04 AM |
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Yes it will do, that will have enough power to do anything on a Locost, factor in proper gauges and a gas bottle (not BOC, you want something like
Adams gas where you purchase the bottle and pay for a refill) or pub gas if your landlord is friendly, splatter spray stops a lot of the spitting
using this.
Once purchased you will find it an invaluable tool 
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Slimy38
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 10:08 AM |
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I don't quite follow, that Clarke welder still uses gasless wire. You can't use standard wire without gas. You either have the expense of
gasless wire, or you buy a bottle of gas. I'd recommend the latter.
I'd also point out that trying to work out welding costs is tricky, mainly because of the resale value of the kit. For example, while buying a
bottle of gas is initially expensive (I think I paid £90), only a fraction of that is the gas, and the bottle is fully refundable. And Clarke welders
tend to go for good money second hand, even the really ratty ones.
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Andi
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 10:14 AM |
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Ok,
is welding with gasless wire cheaper than welding with gas?
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rf900rush
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 10:36 AM |
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I have a SIP 130 mig. Useless until it was modified. I found a few links showing the upgrades.
Now it's useable.
I use it with a old black CO2 fire extinguisher, as above not as good as CO2/Argon mix.
luckily was given a pressure regulator to the extinguisher.
but even without this, the amount it is used even buying little gas bottles from Halfrauds was not to bad.
last job was patching a rusty exhaust.
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Brook_lands
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 10:51 AM |
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Depends what you are doing. For my last project I got a pub gas cylinder of CO2. 10ltr cylinder filled at 200bar which cost me £80 of which £40 is
refunded when the cylinder is return. This cylinder just outlasted the 5kg of 0.6 mig wire I used. So if 5kg of gas less wire is more than £40 more
expensive than 5kg of ordinary mig wire then it is cheaper to use gas. If you are using the small disposable bottles at £10 a go or so then the gas
will be significantly more expensive but may still be cheaper than gas less. Having said all that welding with gas is definitely better.
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sprintB+
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 12:08 PM |
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just to say I'm a pro welder, when we weld big stuff outdoors we use gasless. Used it for years, all my welds are examined by independent
testers and very few show porosity. Those that slate it obviously dont know what they are doing with it, or how to use it properly. Gas mig is childs
play, but when the going gets tough, the tough get going, that is our welding motto. Try welding a ships hull in wet stormy weather with a gas set up.
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blakep82
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 12:20 PM |
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You use gasless on ships hulls? 
Flux core I can see, but surely not gasless?
Even with flux core you still use a shield gas though
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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Slimy38
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 01:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
You use gasless on ships hulls?
Flux core I can see, but surely not gasless?
Even with flux core you still use a shield gas though
??? I thought flux cored was gasless? From the bottom of the mig-welding gasless page;
quote:
There are two other types of cored wire that shouldn't be confused with gasless. The first is "dual shield" sometimes used on very
thick metal for improved weld toughness. It doesn't have enough gasless flux to shield the weld so is used with shielding gas. The second odd
type is "metal cored" wire which is filled with ground metals that can be tuned to give all sorts of properties, again requiring a gas
shield.
Is it just me misunderstanding the terms?
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blakep82
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 02:13 PM |
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Read that bit again
"There are two other types of cored wire that shouldn't be confused with gasless. The first is "dual shield" sometimes
used on very thick metal for improved weld toughness"
They use flux cored wire on the new aircraft carriers, on the 55mm thick hull plates, and must be used with shield gas
I can't think of any industrial "no gas" machines.
I'm currently into my 4th year of 2 years HNC welding fabrication and inspection, 1 year SVQ2 welding and fabrication, and 1st year
apprenticeship in fabrication with a major company.
That said, gasless, OK for diy use I guess, but I wouldn't go near one again.
If you get one of the dual purpose ones, you can try both, you'll find gas is really the only way
That said, I might fire up my old gasless sip machine again and see what I can do with it
[Edited on 28/11/15 by blakep82]
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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sprintB+
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 03:49 PM |
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well I'm into my 45th. year as a coded welder. Wont see 46 though I have to retire soon.Good luck with your career choice. Good to someone
taking on good skills
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britishtrident
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 03:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Andi
Ok,
is welding with gasless wire cheaper than welding with gas?
Depends where you buy your gas and size of bottle.
Gasless welds are ok have a lot spatter and need proper wire brush cleaning before multiple runs.
To switch between gasless and true mig welding the polarity has to be swapped over.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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mark chandler
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 04:03 PM |
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That machine supports both options, you just swap the leads over on the front.
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dilley
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 06:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sprintB+
just to say I'm a pro welder, when we weld big stuff outdoors we use gasless. Used it for years, all my welds are examined by independent
testers and very few show porosity. Those that slate it obviously dont know what they are doing with it, or how to use it properly. Gas mig is childs
play, but when the going gets tough, the tough get going, that is our welding motto. Try welding a ships hull in wet stormy weather with a gas set up.
Arc doesn't count 
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coozer
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 07:38 PM |
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I learned to weld at the ncb workshops long before mig was invented.
First job was skips with a big arc rod... Excellent for welding your mates toecap to the leg of the massive steel table.. 
Next was thin steel with an oxy/acc gas torch and no filler wire...
There was also a forge and gas cutting torch. Good for warming your steel toecaps in the winter. All good fun.
If its just little chores round the garden get down to aldi and buy one the arc welders they sell. Nowt like learning the hard way
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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sprintB+
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| posted on 28/11/15 at 09:39 PM |
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.
I learned to weld at the ncb workshops long before mig was invented.
First job was skips with a big arc rod... Excellent for welding your mates toecap to the leg of the massive steel table..
Next was thin steel with an oxy/acc gas torch and no filler wire...
There was also a forge and gas cutting torch. Good for warming your steel toecaps in the winter. All good fun.
If its just little chores round the garden get down to aldi and buy one the arc welders they sell. Nowt like learning the hard way
That all sounds very familiar, even though it is way in the distant past
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