bubba
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| posted on 6/1/05 at 12:12 AM |
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V6 power - good, bad, ugly
I have been toying with the idea of a locost for a while and now is the time. It seems that generally the trusty old ford 4 pot is the way to go
especialy for the money.
However I want more power (and noise) and I do like the idea of a V6. It occurs to me that there are a few 80's donors for no money with big
engines. Was thinking of a 2.8 capri, granada, or maybe a calton (if I can find a manual box). The later two have IRS. Has anyone else done this?. How
easy would it be to use the IRS? Is this kind of running gear too heavy? What ever the donor I want to as much of it as I can to stay in budget. Is
there any other suitable 80's sheds? Is this all a bit of a silly idea?
Thanks
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 6/1/05 at 12:14 AM |
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quite a few people are using the ford v6. beware it might force a high bonnet line tho. Its also about 60 kilos heavier than a pinto, and you need to
get a box for the V6 with a longer input shaft. Many 2.8 / 2.9 v6 have auto boxes.....
atb
steve
ps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Cologne_V6_engine
This is actually MY car and engine - pics were used with permission 
[Edited on 6/1/05 by stephen_gusterson]
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stevebubs
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| posted on 6/1/05 at 02:07 AM |
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Carlton/Omega/Vectra v6 would be my choice over the Ford Essex. If staying Ford, the later Duratech V6 (as featured in the V6 Mondeos) would probably
be the best as it's quite a compact unit.
Thankfully all Ford bellhousings have similar bolt patterns so a Duratech should mount straight up to a Type 9 / MT 75 etc. - should just be a case of
matching bearings and clutches.
Stephen
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Pseudo7
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| posted on 6/1/05 at 05:39 AM |
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I'm using the 60 deg Chevy 3.4L V6 eng. (same eng. the U.S. Stalker car uses; http://www.angelfire.com/biz6/stalkerv6) for the Pseudo7.
Although I don't have any firm engine dimensions yet, I've already designed a +3(width)+2(height) chassis to accommodate for the larger v6
(vs. inline 4).
The chev 60 deg V6 is available in the States in factory new hi-po 3.4L "crate" form
(http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/ChevyV6s/207ciV6.html) or "slightly used" from the junkyard as it came in a myrid of GM cars.
Weighing in at 350 lbs., w/a few simple bolt-ons (4 bbl carb, intake, header, etc.) it can provide 200+ hp w/more than 200 ft-lbs of torque...in
normally aspirated carbureted form! That's easy, flexible, power making a 1350 lb Pseudo7 very easy to drive (yes, the rear axle has a lsd!)
fast.
Given the price, weight, power potential, availability of donor motors and parts, the engine made a lot sense for my application. BTW, I'm
using a "World Class" T5 from a late model V6 Camaro/Firebird coupled w/an 8.8 '90 LX 5.0L Mustang rear axle for the rest of the
drivetrain...those parts are next to free here in the states.
[Edited on 6/1/05 by Pseudo7]
[Edited on 6/1/05 by Pseudo7]
Pseudo7...similar, but not authentic!
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Simon
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| posted on 6/1/05 at 11:10 PM |
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As far as I'm aware the Carlton is a straight six, so you bonnet will need to end somewhere near the horizon
Why don't you use a Rover V8.
More - common, cheaper, tuneable
ATB
Simon
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 6/1/05 at 11:33 PM |
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being picky, its likely to be a later model 'cologne' from more current donors - ie not over 20 years old!
atb
steve
quote:
Originally posted by stevebubs
Carlton/Omega/Vectra v6 would be my choice over the Ford Essex. If staying Ford, the later Duratech V6 (as featured in the V6 Mondeos) would probably
be the best as it's quite a compact unit.
Thankfully all Ford bellhousings have similar bolt patterns so a Duratech should mount straight up to a Type 9 / MT 75 etc. - should just be a case of
matching bearings and clutches.
Stephen
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 01:27 AM |
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B280E from a volvo 760 , mated to a manual transmission , not much heavier than a pinto - oh , and with a single T4 turbo - 500 hp and 600 ft/lbs
torque
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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phelpsa
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 10:21 AM |
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I vote Duratec V6. Nice and light weight, relatively rev happy, Lovely noise.
Mounts straight up to an MT75 'box.
But note that not one single part is the same as the Duratec mazda engine, only the name.
Adam
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ned
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 10:29 AM |
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duratec v6 is also same as jag v6 (different heads i think) and the new st220 mondeo 3ltr (bored out)
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Trev Borg
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 10:17 PM |
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might i say ALFA
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
By that time, who cares.
You're a mile away, and you've got his shoes
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Liam
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| posted on 8/1/05 at 12:46 AM |
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Hello please
Honda
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Liam
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| posted on 8/1/05 at 12:48 AM |
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But more seriously, if you want it easy, cheap, and in the UK, it has to be ford or vauxhall.
Liam
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Chippy
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| posted on 8/1/05 at 01:18 AM |
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Ford V6
Hi Bubba, I went the V6 route, mainly because I had one. It does involve a great deal more work, primarily you need a wider, and deaper chassis, and
even then you will have problems with getting the exhausts to clear everything. Have a look at my archive, it will give you some idea. If doing it
again I would sell the V6, and use a 2Ltr 4 pot, with carbs, and standard everything.
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krlthms
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| posted on 8/1/05 at 07:01 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
B280E from a volvo 760 , mated to a manual transmission , not much heavier than a pinto - oh , and with a single T4 turbo - 500 hp and 600 ft/lbs
torque
Surely it is not that simple, is it? pray, tell more.
Cheers
KT
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britishtrident
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| posted on 8/1/05 at 11:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ned
duratec v6 is also same as jag v6 (different heads i think) and the new st220 mondeo 3ltr (bored out)
It hasn't got a great reputation for reliability I have seen a couple with rods through the side of the block.
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 8/1/05 at 03:45 PM |
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no its not that simple just pointing out the potential , a B280E has 170 hp and a good load of torque , problem is , they all came with auto , the
only V6 manual was the 260 - which is becoming rarer . A PRV turbo would IMHO be really too scary .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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GTAddict
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| posted on 8/1/05 at 11:53 PM |
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A challenge...
If you want a challenge, then try the 6A13 MIVEC V6 from a Mitsubishi FTO.
You'll have to fab up all the bellhousings from scratch, but you'll get a 200hp 2.0l V6 with VTEC-like cam switching that revs to 8000rpm
day in, day out.
It's a compact little blighter too.
And when you get bored, you can just whip it out, and replace it (plug and play) with the 2.5L twin-turbo from the Galant. Say hello to 280hp+ - or
400 with a chip/ECU.
Sold you yet?
Mark.
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Simon
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| posted on 9/1/05 at 01:03 AM |
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Mark,
er, no.
Far to complicated. I like engines to be very simple (like my woman) Filter changes, oil change and balance carbs.
If it stops working, I won't need a degree in electrical (or mechanical for that matter)engineering to fix it. And, if it is terminal, it
ain't gonna cost a fortune to fix!
ATB
Simon
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 9/1/05 at 11:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon
Mark,
I like engines to be very simple (like my woman) Filter changes, oil change and balance carbs.
thats a strange sounding woman!
atb
steve
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Baalzamon
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 04:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
B280E from a volvo 760 , mated to a manual transmission , not much heavier than a pinto - oh , and with a single T4 turbo - 500 hp and 600 ft/lbs
torque
That engine is at least not my first choice. Well, it is all alloy and quite light weight, but way to fragile. First time that engine run hot, it will
crack the cylinder head. In a car you made by your self, you should have an engine that can take some heat or other bad treatment. It is too easy to
mess up a cooling system made by your self, and there you are, with a blowed cylinder head. If you really want a volvo six, then look att the inline
six in 960 or S/V90.
If you want a good V6, there is only one. Alfa V6, mentioned higher in this thread is the answear. All alloy, looks great, sounds great. Could it be
better? Well, you have to find a suiting gearbox, thats a little problem with that engine.
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Mr_B
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 04:27 PM |
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I vote Honda V6 too. its cheap at least, if not easy.
I found a 1990 'CAR' magazine the nother day, it had a prototype Honda NSX in it. i instantly recognised its sohc 24v honda V6 as the one
in my Rover 827 (except this one was bored out to 3 litres and about 250bhp).
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Simon
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| posted on 14/1/05 at 12:19 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
Mark,
I like engines to be very simple (like my woman) Filter changes, oil change and balance carbs.
thats a strange sounding woman!
atb
steve
Steve,
You'd be surprised at what sort of woman you can make for £250
ATB
Simon
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 14/1/05 at 12:59 AM |
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with regards to B280E , the later engines were a lot better , When do you hear people comaplaing about peugeot V6 engines from the early 90s .
I do agree tho that an inline six is a much bette roption , and they are probably 10 or so V6 engines that you could use - just speaking from a
different perspective - Would you turn down an engine that in a venturi/alpine makes over 500 hp ?
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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Baalzamon
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| posted on 14/1/05 at 10:09 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
with regards to B280E , the later engines were a lot better , When do you hear people comaplaing about peugeot V6 engines from the early 90s .
I do agree tho that an inline six is a much bette roption , and they are probably 10 or so V6 engines that you could use - just speaking from a
different perspective - Would you turn down an engine that in a venturi/alpine makes over 500 hp ?
You have a point there. Nobody has got problems with the enginge when it is in a peugeot. Or inside a DeLorean, I think they did use the same engine
to.
When I think about it, I remember I have heard that there was a problem with the enginge inside a 740. Something was to close to the chassis, or
something. This caused some problem with the cooling.
And, not to forget, people buying volvos was used to buy tractor-like cars, with engines wich could stand misstreatment better then most other
enginges. It is not strange this people got problems with a cars engine...
If I should use this V6, I would at least choose the upgraded version. I think it came in 760 from -87.
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 14/1/05 at 10:53 AM |
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yeah , only use a B280E , early B27/28 would be a disaster IMHO , the later 60 degree V6 from peugeot is alot better again , i digress , a cheap 760
V6 can be had , and apart from a dreadful auto box , the car will carry most everything for a Kit - if you were building a volvo one .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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