quinnj3
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| posted on 5/1/04 at 10:36 PM |
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The perfect Donor car!
I'm new 2 this locost cult, but already i can't stop thinking about the way to go about building one. I've been reading these
forums for a couple of days now and am starting to get 2 grips with the way these things go together.
For insurance reasons i've decided that using a 1.6 sierra is proabably the best bet. What i would like is info on reliability, what things go
wrong with the engine, gearbox, really all the essential gear needed for a locost. Is this a good base or does ne1 recommend any other type of car
and if so why?
cheers,
my aim is to build my own locost wether it takes me a week or 10 years to get started, i'm sure i will sometime
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JoelP
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| posted on 5/1/04 at 11:05 PM |
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hi! i started with a 1600 sierra. the only reason was that it was the first cheap sierra i came across. the annoying thing is that i want more power
before its even finished, but as i have the engine im gonna use it.
reliability isnt a problem for me cos they are only worth a tenner for a new one any way, plus it'll get upgraded if it does break.
all the rest of the running gear seems ok, certainly drove well in the donor.
consider if you want to start with a 2ltr one, insurance is probably not much more and the whole idea is speed, innit?!
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 5/1/04 at 11:07 PM |
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those questions sound like you are buying a car for daily use - and in my view thats not a locost!
how reliable it is will depend on how well you build it and the donor car used.
If you use a knackered 1.6 sierra C reg, it will run just like one of those!
get insurance quotes before you start, sometimes little high powered bike engines are cheaper than big lesser powered sierra engines!
If you only do 3 - 5000 miles a year as a weekend car, things will be cheaper.
atb
steve
[Edited on 5/1/04 by stephen_gusterson]
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200mph
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| posted on 5/1/04 at 11:08 PM |
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you'll definately want more power...everyone does
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quinnj3
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| posted on 6/1/04 at 02:16 PM |
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I am not building a car for daily use but i also don't want to be left stranded 50 mls from home. What i mea is that it would bne useful to
know the trouble spots in these cars so as to avoid this.
The problem with insurance is a fairly big one as i currently have never had a no claims bonus since i started driving 4 years ago. I had an accident
2 years ago, and i live in Northern Ireland which is probably the single biggest hike in insurance.
If i do go for a 1.6 sierra will it be hard to swap it far a 2.0 a few years down the line? I don't plan on sticking with a 1.6 cause i drive a
1.8 16v astra which i imagine wouldn't be 2 far off the pace of a 1.6 in a locost.
Cheers for the replies ne help is much needed.
p.s. is the book "build a sports car for £250 " recommended? I've noticed on some other web sites that there could be a number of
flaws in it. I already have this book but i wanted to know what others thought about it.
my aim is to build my own locost wether it takes me a week or 10 years to get started, i'm sure i will sometime
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timf
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| posted on 6/1/04 at 02:22 PM |
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if your going to build you own chassis then get the drawings from
http://mcsorley.net/locost/default.htm
available in std +4 and more beside
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200mph
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| posted on 6/1/04 at 04:29 PM |
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The book does have some errors, but the mcsorley plans are much better for using as a guide to measure and cut. Piece of advice, if you can, print
the mcsorley plans on single sheet, as you'll constantly find yourself flipping pieces of paper over to find the one you want. This way, you
can order them.
Anyways, the book contains essential information, so is *always* handy.
Plus makes for good reading when sitting on the pan!!
also, I was 20 when I got quoted £300 fully comp for a 1700 locost. Which is nice (fiesta 1.25 was £1000 at that time)
all the best
Mark
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200mph
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| posted on 6/1/04 at 04:30 PM |
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also meant to say, a 1.6 locost would bend the 1.8 astra over it's knees and smack it's @ss!! especially on B raods
mark
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James
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| posted on 6/1/04 at 05:48 PM |
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Hi Quinnj,
Welcome to the Nuthouse!
Get a couple of insurance quotes of the different size engines- that's the only way to know for sure!
Try specialist kit companies to get a proper price- look in a Kit Car mag for names.
As regards the reliability of the donor- bear in mind there's plenty of Sierras with 150K on the clock so they're pretty reliable.
It's not really an issue in this situation anyway- it's not as if you're buying a 2nd hand car- you can strip the engine/axles etc.
down and see what's wrong and replace it where necessary. These engines are so cheap that even if it's seized for some reason you can
always just drop another in!
Bewarned about deviating from the Ron Champion book too much- the more you change the longer it takes and harder it gets. For example- if you want to
use the Sierra IRS system you'll have to design an wishbone system for the rear or else make/buy a DeDion system from the like of GTSTuning.
If you do this then there'll be track issues with the front wheels so you may then have to lengthen your front wishbones. Not least, things will
have to change a bit even if you're just using the Sierra uprights.
Anyway, I could go on for ages detailing the pitfalls but it's all on here already and I don't want to put you off just make sure you know
what you're getting into.
Good Luck,
James
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quinnj3
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| posted on 6/1/04 at 09:27 PM |
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again cheers for the replies
£300 isn't bad for a 1700 locost!
I am building my own chassis but i'm gonna need loads of advice from people on this board. I do know my way around a car as simple as a mk2 or
mk3 astra as a diy mechanic but i know that building one is gonna be a completely different kettle o fish. I will have 2 helpers, as it will be a
joint effort between myself, brother and a friend. Theres no way i could take on building a car myself. Between the 3 of us we have experience of
welding, wiring and manufacturing so hopefully we'll be fine that way. When it comes to selecting the correct bits and bobs thats were the
extra help will be needed.
cheers lads.
my aim is to build my own locost wether it takes me a week or 10 years to get started, i'm sure i will sometime
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200mph
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| posted on 6/1/04 at 11:50 PM |
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it certainly is a steep learning curve.
If i did again what I have done up until now, would take me less than half the time!!
But, have done everything as perfect as I can so far
even making the necessary cups of tea
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scoop
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| posted on 12/2/04 at 09:16 PM |
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The Perfect Donor Car!
I appear to be in exactly the same place as quinnje, got the book, the inch of mdf and have marked out the chassis and am ready to go. I have full
time mechanic /mig welder and a relative who is a chassis engineer for Lotus on stanby for support and advice. Ive already posted a querey on donor
car but this one seems to be live so, im looking to use a 2 litre sierra estate as the donor. Do i substitute the donor list of the elusive mk2 escort
with the same parts from the sierra?
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James
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| posted on 13/2/04 at 02:50 PM |
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Scoop,
As far as the engine/steering column goes then yes but there's a few other little 'issues' to sort out!
Firstly, your back axle- the MK2/Cortina is has Live Axle setup. The Sierra is IRS so if you intend to use this you need to design and then buy or
build a wishbone or DeDion system for the rear. Darren George who runs this site:
http://www.gtscougar.freeserve.co.uk
will sell you a DeDion setup.
Bear in mind also that the Sierra track is approx 7" wider than the MK2 so your front wishbone may need to change length depending on how you do
things.
Also, the front uprights are slightly different dimensions to the Cortina so things will vary.
It's all possible- I've done it which means anyone can- but don't go in blind! If you can find a Cortina then life's a lot
easier!
HTH,
James
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PioneerX
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| posted on 13/2/04 at 03:15 PM |
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I agree with the basics of what everyone has said so far. A single donor makes things a lot eaiser, especially if you plan to buy rather than make
some of your parts (wishbones, etc).
James is right, the cartina is a lot wider than the escort, but this can be solved by sourcing and axle & steering rack from the escort (easier
that the whole car) and running the rest of the cortina parts.
If you find and use a cortina you will be lucky enough to have the front uprights already there, something to consider is that conrtina front uprights
(as per book) are getting really difficult to find (I chanced upon mine on ebay as all the cortinas in the local scappies had no uprights).
It is perfectly possible to use a mix of parts, either because you want to or because you have them, without any real change to the book chassis. I am
personally using a book chassis with cortina front uprights, vauxhall carlton 1.8 8v engine & gearbox with a capri 3000s rear axle. All these
differing parts and I have still been able to build to the book based plans at
http://mcsorley.net/locost/default.htm 
and more to the point I was also able to buy the suspension parts from Darren @
http://www.gtscougar.freeserve.co.uk as I personally wanted profetionally made suspension parts.
Well my 2pence anyway.
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PioneerX
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| posted on 13/2/04 at 03:18 PM |
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Must be friday, I can see more typing error in my previous post that I can to correct
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scoop
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| posted on 13/2/04 at 07:49 PM |
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thanks for the above. I have been feverishly searching on here and on the phone and it would appear, especially on the mk site that the build is
possible from the sierra donor. My mate the mechanic says well just shorten the drive shafts. A couple of companys at least will sell you the uprights
and the wishbones for the rear but, " then your on your own. We dont do plans or measurements"!
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JoelP
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| posted on 13/2/04 at 08:11 PM |
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Look on the bright side, barely 7 months ago i was asking these same questions, james was answering them, and my car is nearly finished now!!
easy with help.
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scoop
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| posted on 14/2/04 at 10:38 AM |
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Jmaes, tal to me mate. Talk to me
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scoop
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| posted on 14/2/04 at 10:39 AM |
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Oh dear, got carried away there.
James (even), talk to me!
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 14/2/04 at 12:05 PM |
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send him a u 2 u
atb
steve
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scoop
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| posted on 15/2/04 at 09:15 PM |
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Have done just that. Cheers
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James
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| posted on 15/2/04 at 11:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scoop
Have done just that. Cheers
I'm not normally on during the weekend much. 9- 5.30 all week is enough for me!
I'm in work on double bubble at the moment tho so perhaps the odd post is acceptable!
I'm not expert by the way- I've just made a lot of mistakes! There's an awful lot to say on this matter so I'll just try a few
basics based on what you said in you u2u.
Designing your own IRS is extremely complex and I would suggest a minefield of easy to make errors that could lead to a very badly handling car if you
don't know what you're doing. I've not really designed my own system- just bought enough parts and measured enough others to put
something together.
The Sierra track is wider than the Escort by quite a significant amount (arguably 7" ) so bear that in mind with whatever system you decide
upon.
I'm not keen on the idea of shortening driveshafts- I've heard (but not substantiated) some bad things about the handling of cars with
this system. But it would save worrying about the front track being narrower or having to lengthen the front wishbones.
I've used full width rear drive shafts and lengthened my front wishbones to match. Using Sierra front uprights too.
If I was you I'd look at Darren George's DeDion rear system: http://www.gtstuning.co.uk/ a few people have used this and Darren certainly
appears to know what he's talking about. It's about £120 (IIRC) and Ned has just recently gone for this system. But has used a standard
front track (with standard wishbones).
At the front of the car it's important to keep the pivot points of all the wishbones and the steering rack in the correct place.
In it's standard state the Sierra rack is not suitable to use. So you will either need to get a MK2 Escort rack or modify a Sierra one.
As my front wishbones match the rear track I've used a Sierra steering rack modified by MK. They basically cut out the middle of the rack body
but then compensate for this by supplying extensions for the trackrod arms to bring the track out again.
There's a lot more to it than what I've said. But I've written enough for now! The way to make this simple and get a car on the road
quicker is to find either a MK2Escort and Cortina hubs or better still get a whole Cortina and keep almost everything standard. The Cortina route will
also mean you'll fill the arches better which looks nicer.
HTH,
James
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mackie
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| posted on 19/2/04 at 05:19 PM |
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We have a cortina axle including handbrake and prop shaft, should you decide to go down that road.
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Jasper
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| posted on 19/2/04 at 08:02 PM |
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If your gonna build your own chassis I would also suggest going the live axle route. The cars/parts may be hard to find - but they are still out
there. If I was doing it again I would probably gets the parts seperately - Escort rack (so it's easily upgraded to a quick rack - a lovely
piece of kit), Cortina uprights, and then decide what engine/gearbox set-up your gonna go for and select either a Cortina/Escort back axle depending
on which diff ratio you need, and if you might want to upgrade it to an LSD (Escort axle is more common).
I idea of a single donor is nice, but unless your buying a chassis it will be a lot of work to make it all fit.
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scoop
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| posted on 20/2/04 at 06:18 PM |
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The people who are working with me arent troubled by this extra work. In fact the friendly Lotus chassis man is excited by it all. It takes all kinds!
As i said to James on the u2u im gonna stick with the sierra donor. Severarl companies are now doin' the bits for this. I think ive finally
found one. Where people are finding escorts and cortinas is beyond me. Ive had enough trouble finding a sierra. I think rons book needs another
update.
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