Wow!

Got the hoses from Ral des and plumbed most of it in and although there isnt a proper fuel supply yet or totally sealed plenum (!) I couldnt resist firing her up and seeing if there was boost!!

Yippee!!

On idle you cant really detect any boost but a quick blip of the throttle and its blowing through - it seems to idle a little smoother and once the float bowls and slides are pressurised all the air plumbing is done.

One thing that is a problem is the dump valve bounces on idle - you can see the piston moving - once the engine revs the oscialltions speed up and eventually the piston seals and there is boost.

Anyone know what the answer is? Ive read various things saying that I might have to fit a heavier spring in the dump valve but that was randomly from a thread in the US I think.

Will post a vid once its making all its lovely noises!

For Kissy and the others who were asking before its a garrett t25, granada turbo diesel intercooler, standard comp ratio and about 7psi electronically controled with standalone programmable controller and solenoid valve.

Just needs a prop, brakes, lots and lots of edgind trim and an SVA!

Geoff

nice one !

the dump valve should be opening on vacuum , and closing on boost - it maybe that you need a double piston type ? , so that it pulls on the second piston at idle , otherwise a stronger spring , but it may still pull it open at idle if you have a strong enough vacuum , and since youre on carbs ? i would say that an air leak like that is bad

Hi,

yeah, I agree it aint good - i think a stronger spring might be a plan - I did look at the twin piston types but I hadnt appreciated the benefits until now.

How do they work then?

Geoff

the twin piston type has two seperate pistons , controlled by two different rates of dpring , the lazier piston gets pulled up by the vacuum , and its sort of a balancing act , when vacuum is less(part throttle etc) the spring.piston closes back to the original piston , whence upon boost-close throttle , it opens normally as a dump valve . of course the noise they make is different since the second piston will stil open fractionally earlier , so its not quite as pronounced

Well done.

Sorry i didn't get time to reply to your e-mail.

It looks like you are pretty much up and running anyway.

I would love to see some photos of your setup. How did you make your manifold?

You say you are running a T25? Do you have any specs for it as there is a large range of T25 bodied chargers and some are more suitable than others.
Do you know which vehicle it came from?


You will not be dissapointed. Turbo charged bike engines are awesome and you don't have to pay Holeshot £3k to get one!

Doug.

Very nice!

Fancy making me a bolt on kit for my CBR Thou?

TC

Hello!

Thanks for all the encouragement! I hope it lives up to expectations....

The turbo was off a 1994 Rover Vitesse 2.0 - apparently they are all pretty similar but were also fitted to R5GTT and Nissan 200sx 13s - the turbine housing is .48 and the compressor housing .43 if I remember correctly (hope that helps).

As for compressor trim I'll dig my calcs out tonight and post some more pics.

Its not tricky to get to the point im at now - i guess the tricky part is going to be getting it fuelled correctly througout the rev range and still pass the emissions at SVA time.....

I made the manifold from the old bike exhaust and some 10mm mild plate for the mounting flange. Will post tonight.

Its hugely satisfying to get the enigne running and feel the boost blowing out the plenum - just hope it turns out to be driveable!!

Geoff

[Edited on 26/9/05 by jambojeef]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jambojeef
Hello!

Thanks for all the encouragement! I hope it lives up to expectations....

The turbo was off a 1994 Rover Vitesse 2.0 - apparently they are all pretty similar but were also fitted to R5GTT and Nissan 200sx 13s - the turbine housing is .48 and the compressor housing .43 if I remember correctly (hope that helps).

As for compressor trim I'll dig my calcs out tonight and post some more pics.

Its not tricky to get to the point im at now - i guess the tricky part is going to be getting it fuelled correctly througout the rev range and still pass the emissions at SVA time.....

I made the manifold from the old bike exhaust and some 10mm mild plate for the mounting flange. Will post tonight.

Its hugely satisfying to get the enigne running and feel the boost blowing out the plenum - just hope it turns out to be driveable!!

Geoff

[Edited on 26/9/05 by jambojeef]

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I'm watching closely.....well done so far!

quote:

---

Originally posted by colibriman
I'm watching closely.....well done so far!

---

...hmmm less of the old thanks very much..

looks like those small turbo's I have may just be the job, eh Colin?!

yep...need to get some numbers off them and see exactly what they are. gorgeous wee things

(but not as gorgeous as a gorgeous woman though...obviously )

great job so far,I am another one who is reading and watching this post with great interest,keep us all posted.
cheers Paul

hmmm , after replying earlier , i had an astra diesel turbo to work on , its an incredibly small turbo , maybe the compressor housing could do with being bigger .

Dont forget garret T2 turbos came on volvo 440/460/480 , that everybody forgets about in scrappies , and can be had for almost nothing , in fact i do have one lying about somewhere - just need to find a bike engine !!!

How hard would it be to turbo a blade motor ?

I have to remake my exhaust manifold anyway, so what else would be involved/would be needed ? Any idea of rough cost ? (was initially put off this idea by the £3k for the holeshot kit !)

Can anyone post pics/guide of how its done/how they've done theirs pls ?

Cheers,

Mike

I'm curious what the rule of thumb is when it comes to sizing a bike turbo, one coming off a car. Seems like since the bike engine will be spinning about 2x the rpm of the car, we could look for car engines roughly 2x in displacement of the bike engine, true? For a 1300cc Hayabusa then we'd be on the lookout for 2.6l turbo car engine?

Not quite as large. Will the bike engine also put out 2x the exhaust?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Volvorsport
hmmm , after replying earlier , i had an astra diesel turbo to work on , its an incredibly small turbo , maybe the compressor housing could do with being bigger .

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mike-ktm
How hard would it be to turbo a blade motor ?

I have to remake my exhaust manifold anyway, so what else would be involved/would be needed ? Any idea of rough cost ? (was initially put off this idea by the £3k for the holeshot kit !)

Can anyone post pics/guide of how its done/how they've done theirs pls ?

Cheers,

Mike

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by kb58
I'm curious what the rule of thumb is when it comes to sizing a bike turbo, one coming off a car. Seems like since the bike engine will be spinning about 2x the rpm of the car, we could look for car engines roughly 2x in displacement of the bike engine, true? For a 1300cc Hayabusa then we'd be on the lookout for 2.6l turbo car engine?

---

Hi all,

Meant to post some pics but couldnt find the camera! Here it is at work.....typical...

I thought that first of all a t2 would be ideal and sourced a nearly new one from an escort MkVII turbo diesel.

THe first problem I had was finding compressor maps and this was always a problem as I tried to work out if it was suitable.

Looking at similar IHI and Garrett turbos I came to the conclusion that the A/R ratio was way too small for the CBR1000 on both sides of the compressor wheel.

Calcs on the t25 seem to suggest that it will run at around 70% efficiency with the CBR1000 which would be really excellent.

I do think that upping the boost at a later stage will increase the overall efficiency of the setup but thats for a later date...

WIll post pics tonight

Geoff

Geoff,

The maps you have been looking at are for the compressor wheels and housings.

They do not relate to the turbine.

If you really want to use that turbo i would see if you could get a smaller housing and different trim turbine off a R5 or something and build a hybrid.

Doug.

this turbo i was looking at was smaller than a T2 im sure , the exhaust housing was tiny , smaller than a T2 .

theyve only got oil cooling also , making it simpler - the compressor was a .36 trim , so really small .

What are ppl's thoughts on using a mini metro turbo ? Would this be any good for charging a blade engine ?

Mike

metro turbo is T3 based , much better to use r5 , or volvo 4 series , as thats a T2 .

having not bothered ever with bike engines - i couldnt advise which is the best one to use . what turbos do holeshot use? - that would be my starting point

What make / model turbo is it?
Have a look what else its fitted to, cos on a Metro its boosting a 60bhp engine to about 90bhp so first impressions would say no, although it may be capable of blowing much more than it does in that application.

Dont underestimate the costs of doing it though, I know Doug did his blade on a very low budget but Im sure its taken a lot of ingenuity, engineering knowledge, access to facilities and lots of time to do it. The costs are soon going to mount up if you need to buy things like a decent turbo, pay for custom manifolds and plenums to be made, buy an intercooler and plumb it in etc etc.

Also I would personally factor in my own opinion that the blade in a BEC isnt far off its engineering limits, esecially the clutch and gearbox, so Im not sure Id be keen to put another 50-60bhp through the engine without beefing up the drivetrain internals at least.

Chris

Holeshot use the one off a Volvo T5 (850/V70?) for the busa ISTR

to be honest Chris, that was kinda why I was considering the Metro unit - thought 30-40 bhp may be enough of a power step without going crazy and mashing gearboxes by the mins

Understand what you mean about the costs spiralling, but i'm pretty much ok on the fab side of things - just a little ignorant about what bits are needed etc. (which is where i could save about 80-90 % on the likes of a holeshot kit hopefully)

Keep the info coming fellas - this is turning out to be very informative.

Cheers,

Mike

Just to add some stuff to think about, this is a rough list of my mate Bazzer's expenditure on his Megabusa turbo conversion over the winter

quote:

---

Buying from the US can save a fair bit for the internals.

But here is a taste of the the things I can remember

Turbo £800
Headers £600
Airbox with injectors £600
Rods £800 ($900 if bought in states)
Pistons £400 ($400 in states I think)
Heavy duty Output shaft £300
Link Pipe £80
Intercooler £400
Laminova Oil cooler £350
Boost / fuel pressure gauge £250
Secondary ECU £400
Hoses £500
Induction pipes £250
Fuel Pump £180
Fuel Reg £90
Wastgate Actuator £90 ( old one wanted to be where a chassis rail was)
Dump valve £220 (Same problem as above)
Radiator £300 (Westfield 4 core)
Various TIG welding jobs and fab work £500
Big Air Filter induction kit £150
Uprated Gearbox £800 (includes replacing a couple of gears, your 3/4 gear at least will be worn :-)



You could obviously save some money on some things if you buy secondhand. I will have forgot some stuff which will bump the price up a bit more.

This is the sort of things you would be looking at. I know people will question the above but if you want to use new parts and you want good engineering solutions to the problem you will face, it will cost a lot.

---

Can anyone who's done this the DIY tight*rse route show us their costs ?

It has to be said, it does look like a show vehicle for Samco / Aeroquip though, and should be over 300bhp at the wheels when fully mapped







[Edited on 27/9/05 by ChrisGamlin]

Blimey Guv'ner

No wonder he managed to spend so much ! V.Nice tho all the same. I'd only be looking at the er.....cost effective method shall we say ? hehehe

Mike

Lots more pics here if you're interested

Thats very nice Chris - real pro. job there, wouldn't be surprised at 300 bhp at all ! Is the manifold mild steel ? Do each of the primaries not have to be equal length ? (would make life a lot easier for me if they didn't - as shown)

300bhp at the wheels is a conservative estimate, will be at least 350bhp at the crank with a bar of boost, internals are good for 400+
The manifold is mild steel then Camcoated, bought from Holeshot. Ideally they would be equal length but packaging dictates you cant really do it, and it won't really have a significant effect on a turbo engine anyway, the reason to do it on a normally aspirated engine is to increase the scavenging effect of the exhaust pulses, but with a turbo sitting in the exhaust you cant gain anything that way anyway, and even if you did I imagine the gains are almost non existent compared to the gains from the turbo itself.

[Edited on 27/9/05 by ChrisGamlin]

hi guys take a look at this found it months ago www.turbo-bike.net

or www.situne.no

or www.cbr900rrt.co.uk

quote:

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Originally posted by mike-ktm
Can anyone who's done this the DIY tight*rse route show us their costs ?

---

Nice work, very impressed

About parts cost...

Tuning (extremely important) may very well cost more then all the parts listed. Even if you make/buy your own ECU, it still needs a dyno/rolling road session to do the tuning right.

Leaving tuning out will likely mean a destroyed engine. Buillding a *reliable* turbo engine is not cheap. Yes it can be done less then buying a complete solution, but the cost doesn't stop at just the components.

Agreed

A good rolling road session was always on the cards to get it running right throughout the rev range.

Garage19, what did you do fuelling wise, ecu, etc. ? Did you go to a mappable system ?

Cheers guys,

Mike

As oppose to the thick end of £500, including a rolling road session ?!?!?!?!

If it all goes bang - i surrender and stick another blade motor in/rebuild for £400. I reckon i'm willing to take my chances for that money !

Who's with me ?

Mike

Could've sworn there was a post a second ago where someone said the expensive rout was the thick end of 8 or 9 grand or so ????

Think i'm going mad / seeing things. Sleep may be a good idea methinks................

no, it was definitely there....I'm sure it's deleted for a good reason though..
maybe that was priveliged info..

Thanks Colibriman - if nothing else it proves I won't be on my own in the place with padded rooms ???

aahhh........padded rooms. Must go,,,,

quote:

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Originally posted by mike-ktm
If it all goes bang - i surrender and stick another blade motor in/rebuild for £400. I reckon i'm willing to take my chances for that money !

---

Hi all,

Doug nice costings - well done getting it made for that amount of money. Pretty much the same set-up and me then I guess.

Interesting to note that you reckon the t25's turbine housing might be a bit big - I guess I'll just have to see now!

The guys I've spoken to at various places reckon a hybrid isnt actually too costly to build from a t25 even from turbo technics so I'll just have see how she drives and get her set-up as the funds come in I suppose!

Interesting though - would love to see your turboed blade some time Doug

Geoff