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Track-proven middy kit that can take a Honda K20
AdamR - 9/2/10 at 12:18 AM

Anyone have any suggestions? The "proven" bit is important as I'm asking on behalf of a friend who would definitely be looking to use the car competitively. Only thing that comes to mind is the Ultima - but I think that is V8 only?

MK9R - 9/2/10 at 12:45 AM

Elise with honda conversion??

ashg - 9/2/10 at 12:46 AM

you might be able to squeeze a honda lump into a riot if you get a bit inventive

kb58 - 9/2/10 at 01:24 AM

You'll have to choose carefully because I think while a lot of kits might be competitive - on their own - they'll get put in a class where they are not.

An Atom comes to mind, fast compared to most cars, but what class would it get stuck in? If it's against anything with aero, it'll be a back marker.

AdamR - 9/2/10 at 08:10 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
Elise with honda conversion??


The guy in question actually races an Exige with K20 conversion already. The problem with this route is that to be truly competitive you have to rebuild the car from the chassis up with lighter/stronger/faster/expensive components. Almost everything, including bodywork gets thrown away and replaced. He contends that it should be possible to build up a car from scratch, based on a kit chassis and bodywork designed for racing, and end up with a faster, more-focused race car for cheaper. Got to admit... I'm sceptical.

AdamR - 9/2/10 at 08:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by kb58
You'll have to choose carefully because I think while a lot of kits might be competitive - on their own - they'll get put in a class where they are not.

An Atom comes to mind, fast compared to most cars, but what class would it get stuck in? If it's against anything with aero, it'll be a back marker.


I suspect you're right, though I have little knowledge of what UK race series' there are for such a car.

So let's say I had an Ultima. What are my racing options? Same question for a single seater like the little MK?

Dingz - 9/2/10 at 08:24 AM

Perhaps a GTM of some sort, a bit like this Vauxhall powered one.Linky

There are some Honda ones too

[Edited on 9/2/10 by Dingz]

MK9R - 9/2/10 at 08:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by AdamR
quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
Elise with honda conversion??


The guy in question actually races an Exige with K20 conversion already. The problem with this route is that to be truly competitive you have to rebuild the car from the chassis up with lighter/stronger/faster/expensive components. Almost everything, including bodywork gets thrown away and replaced. He contends that it should be possible to build up a car from scratch, based on a kit chassis and bodywork designed for racing, and end up with a faster, more-focused race car for cheaper. Got to admit... I'm sceptical.


Does he race in the elise series (LOTRDC)

Tris - 9/2/10 at 08:29 AM

Have you thought about a Spire GT-R ? Its got the race credibility (RGB), aero, and going on the list of installed engines yours should be able to be made to fit.

Audi 80/A4 + Audi Transaxle gearbox
Audi TT + Audi Transaxle gearbox
Duratec + Audi Transaxle gearbox
Zetec + Audi Transaxle gearbox
Renault 21 Turbo

Some guy is even currently building one with a VW TDI engine for endurance racing...

[Edited on 9/2/10 by Tris]

MK9R - 9/2/10 at 08:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Tris
Have you thought about a Spire GT-R ? Its got the race credibility (RGB), aero, and going on the list of installed engines yours should be able to be made to fit.

Audi 80/A4 + Audi Transaxle gearbox
Audi TT + Audi Transaxle gearbox
Duratec + Audi Transaxle gearbox
Zetec + Audi Transaxle gearbox
Renault 21 Turbo

Some guy is even currently building one with a VW TDI engine for endurance racing...

[Edited on 9/2/10 by Tris]


arh, good thinking, why didn't i think of that!!! It was originally designed as an audi install so defo got to be room for the K20. And thats also reminded me, give Contour cars a try, they only have 1 car at the moment, but its being raced in RGB, but they they are developing a Duratec car, so a K20 would defo be possible.

procomp - 9/2/10 at 09:17 AM

Hi

Well except the Ultima. The only other cars that have actualy had any development put into them are the Contour cars. Credible desighn with credible thought being put into it. The only other is the Lynx AE. The lynx has been developed by a well respected guy who can both drive and engineer. Both have well proven records of being able to perform. There is one to avoid and that the retoga. who basicaly ripped of a set of body moulds and then tried to trade on the success of the car they ripped the mould from. But the car is a shambles as can be seen from the lack of results is has achieved.

Cheers Matt

AdamR - 9/2/10 at 10:44 AM

Anyone have a link/further info on Contour Cars?

Lynx AE looks interesting, though BEC only.

MK9R - 9/2/10 at 11:10 AM

quote:
Originally posted by AdamR
Anyone have a link/further info on Contour Cars?

Lynx AE looks interesting, though BEC only.


Their website isn't up and running yet. Best chap to speak to is progers (paul rogers) on here, he is the driver of the contour in the RGB championship





MK9R - 9/2/10 at 11:11 AM

AdamR - 9/2/10 at 12:26 PM

Thanks for ideas so far.

So everything seems to be BEC. Are there no LM style, race-proven kits out there using proper engines?

[Edited on 9/2/10 by AdamR]

D Beddows - 9/2/10 at 01:07 PM

May I be so bold as to suggest you and your friend are going about this the wrong way round? Would it not be a better idea to look for championships that include the kind of car you're talking about - then see if he has the budget and also see what is competitive in those races? Doing it this way round is an easy way to spend a serious amount of cash on a car with nowhere to race! (or at least nowhere to race he can afford!)

AdamR - 9/2/10 at 01:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
May I be so bold as to suggest you and your friend are going about this the wrong way round? Would it not be a better idea to look for championships that include the kind of car you're talking about - then see if he has the budget and also see what is competitive in those races? Doing it this way round is an easy way to spend a serious amount of cash on a car with nowhere to race! (or at least nowhere to race he can afford!)


Yes, that's pretty good advice. I suspect the simple answer is that the car and/or race series' that we're envisaging just don't exist.

So, apart from the 750MC stuff, what other championships are out there that accept home made GT-type cars?

D Beddows - 9/2/10 at 03:22 PM

well yeah, that's your problem - after Radicals appeared no one was really interested in car engined GTs unless they had shed loads of money to waste/spend

What actually is your friends issue? - is it that he can't just can't afford to be competitive in the Lotus formulas? or he wants a GT car? If it's the former MX5 racing is some of the best I've seen for a long time and if he has the budget for Lotus he should have enough for a top running MX5........... TV coverage as well!!?

AdamR - 9/2/10 at 04:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
well yeah, that's your problem - after Radicals appeared no one was really interested in car engined GTs unless they had shed loads of money to waste/spend

What actually is your friends issue? - is it that he can't just can't afford to be competitive in the Lotus formulas? or he wants a GT car? If it's the former MX5 racing is some of the best I've seen for a long time and if he has the budget for Lotus he should have enough for a top running MX5........... TV coverage as well!!?


It's not about budget - the Exige is now pretty competitive AFAIK and he's moving up to the GT Cup this year. We were simply musing that hypothetically there must be an better way to end up with a competitive car-engined GT than to buy a Lotus and spend thousands upon thousands upgrading every component apart from the chassis itself.

I don't really buy the assertion that bike engined cars a la the Radical really have killed the market for car engined GTs. After all, the Ultima is still... um... the ultimate and that has the daddy or all car engines. Just surprised there isn't something between the two extremes!

TimC - 9/2/10 at 04:17 PM

Thinking about your original question and criteria, you'd be looking at either the aforementioned Spire or anything designed for Sports 2000 which would include the Contour (which is a serious piece of engineering at a pretty reasonable cost), or something like this.. Either would require bespoke work to take the K20 however.

Which brings me to your next muse... Sports 2000 (Duratec) is the obvious choice, but also have a look at the Open Sportscar Series.

The organisers are local to me and nice chaps. Some of the cars are a bit mental though, so you might want to strap a blower to the K20! There is a 2L class though not necessary.

Dangle_kt - 9/2/10 at 06:35 PM

Radical?

D Beddows - 9/2/10 at 06:40 PM

Sports 2000 is the obvious choice BUT that's SO not going to be cheap!!! Bike engined racers are so prevalent in club motorsport because of the 'bang for buck' equation..... why does it have to be a 'car' engine? if it's just for racing I don't see the problem! (and I'm firmly in the CEC for a roadgoing car camp here btw! )

ettore bugatti - 9/2/10 at 07:27 PM

The Lola B08/90 might be a nice thing:
http://www.lolacars.com/downloads/racecar_8.pdf

not sure about if it will fit the K20A.

hicost blade - 9/2/10 at 09:36 PM

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=129818

hicost blade - 9/2/10 at 09:50 PM

I think the ADR's are pretty useful:

http://www.adr-engineering.co.uk/adr3-cn-racing-car.php

£55,740 + vat is a real locost solution....

MakeEverything - 27/2/10 at 10:35 AM

The avelle GTA if you can find one? No idea what the power is like with the V6, but im about to find out!
Not sure on handling either, but that can be adjustable.