I've uploaded a copy of the article - in all its glory - onto the web-site to save you the trouble of running out to buy a magazine (or - more like the Locost crowd - standing reading it in WH Smith, whilst looking shifty...!)
That is all.
The LMP has been featured in this months (i.e. October 2004 issue) EVO magazine.
I've uploaded a copy of the article - in all its glory - onto the web-site to save you
the trouble of running out to buy a magazine (or - more like the Locost crowd - standing reading it in WH Smith, whilst looking shifty...!)
That is all.
I think your "that is all" statement is a little modest. Well done and I hope your phone will be red hot with enquiries.
Good for you!!!
Ian
DROOL!DROOL!DROOL!DROOL!DROOL!DROOL!DROOL!
Steve, That's just fantastic! You better be ready for the orders now!
I knew it from the moment I saw it, it's a winner! Nice job.
(now - will you sell them in the states?) :-)
Thanks folks.
Steve - We will sell them in the States as soon as we can figure out how to get round the bloody reg's!!
If some things come together in the next couple of weeks, it may be in North America sooner than you think! 
Oh - BTW - it'll be at Brands Hatch on the 6th September if anyone fancies coming along.
[Edited on 1/9/04 by tadltd]
quote:
Originally posted by tadltd
Thanks folks.
Steve - We will sell them in the States as soon as we can figure out how to get round the bloody reg's!!
If some things come together in the next couple of weeks, it may be in North America sooner than you think!
Oh - BTW - it'll be at Brands Hatch on the 6th September if anyone fancies coming along.
[Edited on 1/9/04 by tadltd]
yup, it'll sell as a kit, then be registered as a specialty construction
The big issue in California will be the bike drivetrain. I think it'll make it impossible to register here 
All I need is for someone in the USA to buy one in kit form then...
Perhaps the Californian reg's can be overcome with the next development: an Audi V6/V8 or BMW V8...
quote:
Originally posted by tadltd
Perhaps the Californian reg's can be overcome with the next development: an Audi V6/V8 or BMW V8...
As you may know, specialty car makers aren't responsible for getting the car through emissions testing for the customer. In California then the
(poor) customer has to deal with it, not you.
Of course that attitude, "the customer's stuck with the consequenses" is, in my opinion, one reason so many specialty car companies are
out of business.
For California, the best compromise may be to design in a drivetrain of something that's sold here. Sportbike engine are a problem because they
never were sold here in 4-wheel vehicles.
Our emission laws keep changing, making it all the more "interesting." A recent law allows 500 special registrations each year to specially
constructed vehicles, to pass an emissions test for what the car appears to be. That is, you build a Cobra kit car, so it must meet the
emissions of a 1965 Cobra, regardless of the engine. Unfortunately that law won't help here...
In a nut shell, (I think) you can use any 5yr-old or newer drivetrain you want, as long as ALL of it is used, all the emission equipment too. One
thing mfgs forget about is the gas tank. I was told up front that to pass emissions it MUST be a gas tank from an automobile. That rules out custom
tanks or fuel cells...
[Edited on 2/9/04 by kb58]
I wonder how well a honda drive train would fit in there?
Is that your missus in your new avtar Steve Graber?
This question is probably in the wrong section but....
quote:
Originally posted by Cita
Is that your missus in your new avtar Steve Graber?
This question is probably in the wrong section but....
where'd you get THAT avatar???!!
PLEASE NO!!!!!!!!!!...i mean i'm not offended
quote:
Originally posted by Cita
PLEASE NO!!!!!!!!!!...i mean i'm not offended
- Some honda/ricer forum (don't ask - looking for turbo info). It was an avatar that I just HAD to keep watching... )
quote:Well, far be it for me to decide whether you should pull off or not.....
Originally posted by sgraberJust thought I would spice things up a bit. If anyone is offended just let me know and I'll pull it off....
, it could cause me a "please
explain" moment if a co-worker wanted to complain. I suspect the same is true of others here as well. But they're not complaining that you are reading a site about building cars rather than working?!
J/K - No prob. I understand. It is gone.
She was fun while I lasted...
Aaaaa! That picture is MUCH worse!
Aaargh!!!! Naked, hairy man!!!
My eyes, my eyes!!
Put her back Steve, please
Seriously (?) though, thanks for that Steve. It's mostly because my screen is directly visible to a few ladies here in the office and it's
the sort of environment (University) where such issues cause problems.
Now I can go back to wasting my time surfing the web, looking at cars, because there's no naked ladies on the screen
Dominic
quote:
Originally posted by kb58
Aaaaa! That picture is MUCH worse!
...back to the original thread...
Well done Steve.. tidy bit of gear...!!!
Whats next???
regards
Malcolm
quote:
Originally posted by tadltd
All I need is for someone in the USA to buy one in kit form then...
Perhaps the Californian reg's can be overcome with the next development: an Audi V6/V8 or BMW V8...
A small block US V8 would fit fine, if someone wanted to try it out!
I'd be glad to provide all the engineering help required for an installation.
What's next? Well, there's a few things up my sleeve at the moment. I'm involved with a brand new design that uses BMW donor bits - NOT
another 7 clone - so you may see something on that in the next few months...
Watch this space!
well done steve. car's awesome.
quote:
Actually California is probably not as big a problem as some other west coast states.
There are a couple of ways to get a car Registered in Ca, basically the first 500 specialty vehicles registered a year can be smog exempt, the only other option is to meet the emissions requirements with ALL of the original emissions equipment supplied by the factory (or use a pre 74 block).
You might be better off with a US v8 if you want to sell in the US.
Yes that's a possible reading....
There is an exception in the text for cars that don't look like other cars (I think they get registered as a 68).
My understanding is that the final decision is entirely upto the inspector you get assigned.....
After reading the bill several times and talking to a lot of people, it's still no clearer to me so for my project I've decided to go with a
pre 74 block just to be sure
quote:
Originally posted by tadltd
A small block US V8 would fit fine, if someone wanted to try it out!
I'd be glad to provide all the engineering help required for an installation.
Not sure if a V12 would fit - but I know the BMW V8 would fit. With the same transaxle, no doubt.
A V8 or V12 seems out of character for the car (read: heavy.) Aren't there some high output V6s out there? A high winding 6-cylinder sounds
very nice indeed.
Of course if people want a V8 or V12, well, Marketing would say, "Do it."
Sometimes I wonder if the people trying to shoehorn these big displacement engines into sub 700 Kilo cars have ANY idea what they are doing!?
Apologies if any of you are listening here, but most on here understand the value of lightness as a means to quickness, right? To me the Turner LMP is
the epitome of this concept. Shoving a heavy lump in the back seems really wrong.
Don't misunderstand me, I have nothing against obscene amounts of power, it's the weight that bothers me. A nice ZX12 with a turbo seems
appropriate tho!
Steve T, do you have an estimate on the amount of power your current chassis can handle?
the ford v6 duratec is quite a reasonable engine, i know of one running around 330-340bhp (not standard) but they put out 220bhp in stock trim. it is
quite a compact unit, and apart from injection system, which could be modified it is quite low. the pic below is running after market throttle bodies
btw..
same old pic:
junossv6
Steve he has, and its a lot more than whats in it just now he has a cunning plan, but its a secret and he would kill me if I told u lets just call
it Plan C, we have worn out A and B, in fact A is just about to meet its maker with a sthil saw.
Shug.
Aw christ Ned I wish u would stop posting that type of pic, I look sad dribbling out the edge of my mouth at this time of the morning
Shug.
The BMW V8 is actually quite a small and lightweight engine (140kg), being all aluminium. At 280bhp standard, it's tuning potential is massive.
And of course the latest M5 engine would also fit...
A V8 would be the largest engine we'd install, and to retain the lightweight ethos it would have to be cast in aluminium - I think that rules out
a lot of the small block US V8's? A motorsport transaxle's not much heavier - if at all - than the BMW diff and short prop' we use, so
the weight difference is really down to the engine. And if you're instantly gaining 100bhp and about 150lb/ft of torque over a ZX12, then
it's going to offset the extra 50kg quite considerably!
The Audi V6's that we've been looking at (and others) are also relatively light due to aluminium casting. However not all - like the Ford -
suit. We need to ensure that we have a 90deg V-angle to clear the engine cover, and the Ford engine has a 60deg angle, so is too tall. A 90deg V will
also ensure the CofG is lower, and both the Audi V6 and BMW V8 have this angle.
It just seems a bit daft to invest hundreds of thousands to develop a twin bike-engine V8 that's going to have less torque, will weigh almost the
same as a regular aluminium car V8, and have less tuning potential. All that work's already been done in the car engine, and if you want a very
high spec', high-revving, lightweight, V8 why not buy a 2nd hand Cosworth DFV for less or similar money to a bike-derived V8? (which I was
considering...!)
What does a 3-rotor Wankel weigh????
Steve, I would far rather put a LS1 (Camaro) or LS6 (Corvette Z06) engine in than a BMW V8. They are basically the same engine and offer massive
tuning potential, are really cheap, you can get custom harnesses made easily. Also they are WAY smaller and lighter than the BMW V8. I am in the
process of fitting a lightly tuned LS6 (450hp) in a BMW M3. Its funny, the V8 is smaller than the original straight 6 and 40 lbs lighter. Below is a
picture of one in another guys car.
This company can supply custom ecu's and harnesses that remove all the emissions stuff if required.
www.speartech.com
Wow - i thought those engines were bigger than the BMW V8. I know that BMW ran a different V8 in the USA to the one in Europe, perhaps that's
where the anomaly lies.
However, those are VERY interesting engines - I may just look a bit harder at them because I know they can be bought from GM Goodwrench as crate
engines. BMW's are much harder to source and (probably) more expensive.
BTW - are these OHV or OHC (looks like the former)? Also, how much do they weigh?
Thanks.
[Edited on 9/9/04 by tadltd]
Oh god u got him thinking again, bigger engine bay, transaxle, new wishbones, sort out the engine bay trangulation, possible new body at rear......
revise air intakes, you fool, now look what a mess you got me into..... who said this wuz fun. Looks cool though far better than some of the stuff hes
had lying on the shop floor
Shug.
Yes its a OHV engine, hence the reason its so compact. I don't know the exact size difference between the BMW V8 and the LS1 but I know the BMW
V8 is a REALLY tight fit in a e36 M3. As you can see from the pics, this isn't the case with the LS6/LS1. Don't quote me on weights, the
only thing I could find was:
BMW M60 B 40 4.0l V8 Dressed Engine Weight 468lbs
Chevrolet
LS1/6 5.7l Manual Dressed Engine Weight 497lbs
Without power steering and A/C you should be able to drop a good 20 to 30 lbs. Plus I am not sure if the weights include flywheel. If they do you can
easily loose another 35lbs from the stock unit.
When I get the engine from the engine builder I will put it on my scales to get an accurate weight. The C/G on the lS1 is quite a bit lower than the
BMW. I am using a drysump setup from ARE which allows for a really low placement of the engine. Plus the kit isn't too badly priced at under
$2000 USD. You can also get adapter plates to mount the engine to a Porsche G50, G52 or Audi Transaxle. My friend ran a G50 setup in an Ultima GTR and
it worked a treat. Some links that may be of interest to you:
www.ls1tech.com
www.kennedyeng.com
www.drysump.com/pan1d.htm
Just for comparision here is a picture of a BMW V8 in the same car
http://speed.supercars.net/IMG?viewPic=y&source=car&id=224&i=0&p=1995_bmw_alpina_b8_48-3.jpg&y=1995&m=Alpina&o=B8%204.6
It just seems out of character for the car to have such a heavy drivetrain. Why not turbo the bike engine?
engine weights - can't quantify what this guy says... but have a look at http://forum.bmwcarmagazine.com/topic2.asp?TOPIC_ID=10493
regards
Malcolm
We have thought about putting a turbo on the bike engine, haven't we, Shug!
Whether we take it any further is a different matter, because that in itself would cost a small fortune.
Besides, I have an alterior motive for installing a V engine. If all goes to plan, you guys in the USA and Canada will probably hear about that
project first.
If you go down the V8 route, what will differentiate your product from all the other mid-engine, V8 cars? Weight and handling are wonderful advertising points... I guess if your lap time goes down that's all that matters. Actually that's not true.... if sales increase that's all that matters...
quote:
Originally posted by tadltd
We have thought about putting a turbo on the bike engine, haven't we, Shug!
Whether we take it any further is a different matter, because that in itself would cost a small fortune.
Besides, I have an alterior motive for installing a V engine. If all goes to plan, you guys in the USA and Canada will probably hear about that project first.
full whack busa turbo is only 7k at holeshot racing. i believe the zx12 doesnt (according to their figures) have as much potential as the busa, but
maybe thats cos they havent tried hard enough!
they do busas up to 450bhp ISTR.
I read somewhere that the ZZR1100 was originally designed to run a turbo. Performance Bikes tested one and got just over 200mph out of it with an American kit fitted.
Right, Shug. Spark up the welder. You've got a turbo manifold to build!
Lucky we have 3 spare turbo's to play with, eh?!
Enjoy yer holiday ya sad twat I will just stay and hold the fort in between nervous breakdowns Methinks u need to retitle your firm to the
"Whacky racers"
Shug.
Hire me to help design and build these cars and I'll come live in Scottland with all you nutters!
From sun, sand, and a thoroughly enjoyable 2 weeks in a great resort, to miserable, cold, wet, dull weather at Glasgow thsi morning...
Still, I was cheered this morning to find this link in an e-mail: www.carenthusiast.com
Now, to keep the momentum going...!
quote:
Originally posted by tadltd
From sun, sand, and a thoroughly enjoyable 2 weeks in a great resort, to miserable, cold, wet, dull weather at Glasgow thsi morning...
Still, I was cheered this morning to find this link in an e-mail: www.carenthusiast.com
Now, to keep the momentum going...!