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Driveline for in-line midi
caber - 5/6/06 at 09:34 PM

I know I haven't finished my locost yet but I am already contemplating the next project! What are likely donors for an inline midi engine, gearbox, transaxle? I am thinking either v6 or v8 and something that will be road civilised!

I suppose I am thinking about a cross between a Lotus Europa and a Chapparal based on a simple spaceframe though it would be interesting to use the engine/ gearbox as part of the structure.

Have I gone completely barking or is there an idea in there somewhere?

Caber

RazMan - 5/6/06 at 10:06 PM

Depending on your budget, the new Audi V6 would be ideal - the shortest V6 I've seen and around 300bhp too

kb58 - 6/6/06 at 01:42 AM

Be aware many new drivetrains, and Audi/VW is one of them, have the ECU into EVERYTHING. For example if you want to start the car, the ECU has to read a code on the key... hard to do on a Locost. Worse, since they are drive-by-wire, the ECU calculates what torque the engine is supposed to be making. If you modify the engine too much the ECU will think something is wrong and cut the throttle, since it controls that too.

All this of course can be "cured" with an aftermarket ECU, but that's going to add a lot for the ECU and tuning - especially tuning...

[Edited on 6/6/06 by kb58]

caber - 6/6/06 at 08:39 AM

Err I think Locost is the option I am looking for and as far as possible minimal electronics, I can cope with luminition and 4 webbers, ECU and injection is a headache, if I have to do this I would probably go for a new unit rather than bodge the car's unit.

Caber

MrFluffy - 6/6/06 at 12:28 PM

Not the highest tech solution but a tried and tested route..
Im building a car around a rover v8, mid mounted hooked up to a renault un1 gearbox (well actually its a 369, but its the same apart from ratios). Transaxle adaptors to granada halfshafts easy available, and itll take a fair amount of power. You can get adaptor plates easy , and even some companies will sell you a new cast bellhousing (which isnt locost sadly). For the plates it will specify which car the transaxle had to come out of as renault changed the bellhousings for each car that they fitted it to. And its a weird bellhousing as it forms the front edge of the box and when you remove it all the oil comes out
If you tune your motor into insanity or use a chevy etc (which I didnt because the rv8 is so light) derek bell does a gearbox upgrade for the un1 that involves replacing the 3 piece mainshaft with a one piece that takes 500hp and v8 torque, top gear @ 185mph at the nurburgring tested in his own car...
Theres usually a un1 up on fleabay for around the 250-300 quid mark, but if you seek one out for yourself they can be had cheaper. I paid 30 quid for my 369 not so long back.
Oh and dont be tempted to get a un5 out of a renault master, its a UN1 DERIVATIVE, and the diff ratio is far far too low and the diff bearings are different so you cant swop other ratios into it.

Now if anyone has a R30 bellhousing alone lying around, Id be very interested in it meself

caber - 6/6/06 at 12:42 PM

Mr. Fluffy,

What cars have the UN1 type box? I may take a trip to the scrappies at the weekend as I need some steering bits for my current build, I could have a look at the engine/box in a car.

TIA

Caber

ned - 6/6/06 at 12:55 PM

i was under the impression they were in renault 21's and or 25's.

Ned.

sgraber - 6/6/06 at 11:27 PM

I have been wondering a lot about these newer powerplants that have the ECU tied into everything from the doors to the dome light.

If you removed all of the electronics from the engine and didn't want to revert to carbs, wouldn't you always have the option of MegaSquirt EFI? It's inexpensive, relatively simple to build AND install, has a broad userbase that actively participates at www.msefi.com and can be used on virtually any internal combustion engine. In addition it has monitoring software that assists in tuning the engine for optimal efficiency. That gets you 90% of the way tuned and then a few dyno runs can complete the job.

Or is there something extra special about the newer powerplants that absolutely requires the factory ecu?

MrFluffy - 7/6/06 at 12:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by caber
Mr. Fluffy,

What cars have the UN1 type box? I may take a trip to the scrappies at the weekend as I need some steering bits for my current build, I could have a look at the engine/box in a car.

TIA

Caber

Good list on :-
http://www.un1.co.uk/Original%20vehicles.htm

Only a couple of notes, the master is a derivative as above, and the espace models fitted with the un1 were all v6's. The more common 4 bangers were ng9's which are a fair bit weaker.
The one to have has to be the 21 turbo box...

RazMan - 7/6/06 at 07:55 AM

quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
I have been wondering a lot about these newer powerplants that have the ECU tied into everything from the doors to the dome light.

If you removed all of the electronics from the engine and didn't want to revert to carbs, wouldn't you always have the option of MegaSquirt EFI? It's inexpensive, relatively simple to build AND install, has a broad userbase that actively participates at www.msefi.com and can be used on virtually any internal combustion engine. In addition it has monitoring software that assists in tuning the engine for optimal efficiency. That gets you 90% of the way tuned and then a few dyno runs can complete the job.

Or is there something extra special about the newer powerplants that absolutely requires the factory ecu?


I tried to use the existing ECU that came with my Mondeo donor but quickly realised that it was going to be very difficult if not impossible due to the security sensors that are built in. In the end I went for an aftermarket ECU but if I did it all again I think I would try the Megasquirt route which seems to be quite straight forward and flexible....... and cheaper.