All the latest hulabaloo re; Alans GRP got me inspired to work on my body design. Any comments?

Steve G
Rescued attachment radiosityrender1.jpg

Steve...I like it.....

Look's you'll need the 90mm Hellas too...

It's got that kinda professional concept show car look....

I like it as well! Excellent job.

What are you using for your 3d program?

Thanks.

Alan, can you give me a time estimate for coming out to AZ to build this for me?
Alternately, can you see from this view what parts of this body are 'non-manufacturable'? I simply don't have any practical experience with mold making. <YET....>

I am using 3DSMax that jpg is really low quality, I am using radiosity lighting which really cleans up the shadows.

Steve, from just this one view I don't see anything blatantly non-manufactureable.

Some corners may need slightly bigger rads.....and some consideration will be needed regarding where the moulds split etc....but overall should be do-able...

sgraber:

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Alans GRP got me inspired to work on my body design. Any comments?

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Mmm!

I like it!

Any chance of a rear 3/4 view?

Terry

Any comments? err. yup, one, your far too damn good at 3DSM, and two you have far too much time on your hands!!

Seriously though, looks the business, should look even better in the flesh.

Kingr

The back end reminds me of the Porsche Carrera GT.

Kingr

[Edited on 25/6/03 by kingr]

Nice, Looks a bit like the Shelsley T2 Are you going for opening doors?

Yeah, I keep thinking that it will have 1/2 doors that hinge up at the front. The frame has been built so that doors can be put on. But probably the prototype will be a more simple 'sit on the ledge and drop in' kinda car. With a removable steering wheel.

I think I kinda suck at 3DS, but that's because I have friends like this. http://www.watsonstudios.com/

I haven't finished the look of the rear, but think Opel Speedster.

Shelsley T2? A car with excellent driving dynamics, but I am hoping to get more of an edgey look to mine.

Steve, I just checked the link....VERY nice work indeed.....

Also, checked out your latest update.....coming on very well....soon be finished...

I am also thinking of allowing for doors, your avatur shows a roll over bar, is this still a feature or are you also thinking of the twin hoop route? As for 3DSM I had a friend try and sort out something from my sketches and it was no half as good as yours Still if I had the money then I could employ your friends to give me a really profesional look! Oh well back to the old pencil and paper routine
Keep up the good work it is enjoyable watching everyone else progress!

Alan my friend, thanks. I am still dreading the bodywork tho. It will be years probably before that is finished.

The rollbar was just formed this morning. It is 2" round .120 wall and I expect to be covering it with a fiberglass fairing as shown in my avatar. It bolts on to the car at the superstructure. Removable for different purposes - street cruising:no rollbar, canyon carving:rollabr, track days:rollbar with x-brace to windshield.

Steve

PS - Even I can't afford my friend Jon's animation/illustration services. He is a multiple Emmy winner and lives very comfortably with freelancing projects all over the world... Some guys.... It's ok tho - I stole his girlfriend who then became my wife!

Steve,
I've taken a look at the pics on your site and it looks as if the rear chassis stiffness would benefit from some extra triangulation. The pics don't show any around the front, back, bottom or top.

I doubt if a diagonal would fit acros the bay as it would probably snag the engine but a V brace might if put sideways and a Y brace is also possible.

Adding triangulation across the front and back of the bay looks fairly striaght forwards and will help tie the sides together.

I like the styling by the way.

Chris

Chris, Thanks very much for those comments. That's exactly the type of comment I am hoping to get off the message board! Take a look at the attached image and tell me if this is a good start?

I plan on making it a removable 'v-brace' starting from the center/front of the engine bay and travelling back to both rear corners. In this image only one side of the 'V' is finished.

As you mentioned, major triangulatation is still missing from the engine bay around the sides and back, and another brace will be added above the engine across the transmission to that side motor mount.

Thanks again and please feel free to send diagrams with ideas.
Rescued attachment Bala06-23-03 007.jpg

This is what I am thinking regarding additional bracing. The green lines are lower. the orange lines are upper. Anyone care to comment on this?
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Steve, this is my engine bay for reference.
I still have some diagonals to put in but may give some ideas........

sgraber, That looks about spot on. I like what you're doing with it all.

Alan, I just noticed in that pic you just posted, the rear suspension links look like they will bind. Surely you would need some form of spherical rodend in that application? Or are they a soft rubber bush, and you don't envisage much vertical wheel movement? Am I missing something?

Hi Rorty,

They are poly bushes at the frame ends and rod ends at the other end.

The twist is minimal, but is allowed for.

Only the the top front wishbone has hard (rotating) bushes.

Steve,

I've done a quick analysis of tubes around your engine bay. I saved time by grafting your engine bay region to the rear of my Lotus 23 model to give a feel for how it works.

With only the upper side diagonals (as shown in your website photos) 900ftlbs per degree.

With lower V brace as shown in your post, diagonals across the rear, diagonals across the front of the engine bay (in the panel behind the petrol tank), and a net work of diagonals arond the top of the engine bay 1800ftlbs.

The yellow tubes going to the top of the chassis (your post) probably don't do much for stiffness.

The yellow engine bay diagonal in your post needs to continue right round the engine. I'll try and post a diagram shortly.

Chris

Rescued attachment steveschassis.JPG

That's the diagram done.

The engine bay top triangulation is shown in the three small views. The shadded area is roughly where the engine is. It doesn't matter much which option you choose, pick the one that fits best round your engine.

The red tubes in the main view are the other tubes that I added to the engine bay to get the increase in stiffness quoted above.

There is a difference between your chassis and my analysis in the rear of the bay. You have three rectangles across it and your last post suggested adding diagonals to two of them. My model has two rectangular spaces and two diagonals. Fitting a diagonal, X brace, V brace or welded in panel accross the central panel of your rear frame will make its behaviour similar to my analysis.

Alan,
Your chassis would also be stiffened up by tubes across the top of engine bay similar to those shown in the three small views.

Regards
Chris

I forgot to say that the diagonals around the top of the engine bay connect the blue dots in the main picture. They do not connect to the tops of the triangular towers on the chassis sides.

Can anyone show me where the edit function is?

More than likely I'll have a bolt on top brace...fastened back to my top corner gussets...I'll have to see how the space works out....

Plus, a bolt on one can be changed for different engines.

Chris, Great line drawings!

I really appreciate your advice regarding this area. I think you have helped me immensely!

This is my first full ground up frame-up project and I am flying blind in a lot of ways. Anyone else feel that way, or is it just me? I have been struggling with this bracing thing for a long time. Thinking that I would end up adding a bunch of extra tubes that did nothing and missing a critical one.

So thanks again. What I will do now is mock up the chassis engine bay in 3DS and upload a rendering for one last lookover.

Steve G.

Chris,

Edit is above your post on right.
3 small icons. It is the first.
Might need to scroll page over a bit to see it.

Terry

When I added the bracing around my engine bay on my chassis model it really made a big difference to the overall stiffness of the rear of the car. I think it is worth the effort and hassle to come up with something in this area even if it has to be bolt in. A lot of chassis seem to neglect this area and I don't think are very stiff as a result.

I have been following your build steve and the car is looking good. Do you plan on running the car without the bodywork? I am going to do some extensive testing of mine on the track before I commit to making the buck. I figure its better to discover any fundamental flaws early on when you can modify the chassis easily.

More renderings! Here are a few different renders of what is rapidly becoming a birdcage... The plan is indeed to make the chassis drivable and play with it like a go-kart for a while. If it handles well, I won't scrap it and buy a Meerkat.
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Another View...
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Originally posted by sgraber
... The plan is indeed to make the chassis drivable and play with it like a go-kart for a while..........

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