with opinions....

A bit late for anything drastic (until Mark 2 ), but this is a reasonable representation of what it will look like. Some touching up has been done (lights, for example) but nothing much.

So, fire away.............

v.nice Mr B. My hat is off to you sir....

Shouldn't be long now the bodyworks finished then eh?

Ned

Thanks Ned.

Next step is to figure out all the body mountings, then work on the headlight buckets to get the body work ready for painting....then back onto the frame for completion....then paint that....

Damn, I've barely started.....

Thanks Syd,

I did actually do a car body nearly 20 years ago....I just forgot what hassle it was....

I assume you mean the delightful, 4 cam 32 valve alloy jobbie?....the Northstar...
Yes, I believe it will...I did do an oversize engine bay....but, do I really need 275/300HP?














Of course....who doesn't....

Whaoo!
Looking good!

The only thing that I notice is the front arches!
The radius is continued round past the 90 degree mark at the bottom. This could possibly cause rubbing against the tyres when in droop with a certain amount of steering lock on!
Otherwise great!
Can't wait to see a screen on it!

Terry

Thanks Terry,

Good point about the arch clearance.
The front is riding a little high (not got the full weight on) and is almost on full droop now....and just barely clears, so it is something I'll have to watch for.....also the clearance for the headlights is minimal too.....all stuff that I'll need to look at.

Similarly the rear is riding a little low (soft springs), and I'd like the wheels to fill the arches a bit more.

But........at least I feel inspired and motivated to do these extra things, and that's partly due to the encouragement I get from you guys.....so thanks everyone....

With larger rubber it would be more of a problem.

I think I need a bit of encouragement! When can you come round?
I'll supply the tea!

Terry

Well done Alan looks good,

Just out of interest do you have any idear how heavy the body panels are?

Hi Alan!

I've been looking at your design for a day or two... I was wondering whether to say anything, but then I thought that you had called for comments... so, please take what follows as constructive criticism!

The area around the front wheel arches really bothers me, but I can't work out why - perhaps it just looks too hefty in comparison with the rest, or maybe it's too square for my taste. Alternatively it may be the lack of scale in your pictures, as I guess that this is quite a small car. I can't nail down what it is that bothers me - it's a lot easier to look at a design and be able to say "that looks just right" without needing to know why.

As I say, I hate to criticise anyone doing something I wouldn't even consider doing myself, so I hope you'll appreciate that no malice is intended.

regards,

David

David, and anyone else, please do be honest and don't hold back with your opinions.....this is what I need....

If people do really like it, then that is great, but I really would like the bad feedback too.......

David, do you mean from this angle or some other viewpoint?....funny really, I like the front arches from this view....it's other things I like less, but I won't say what unless anyone else mentions it too....

Just because I have spent a lot hours on it doesn't mean it can't be ugly......

It does look slighty different in real life and it is fairly small too.....

So, please everyone....fire away...

Syd, looks good, nice work.....I'm not into electric cars much, but that performance is good....

Poloace:
approx weights:
rear 30 pounds
body 40 pounds
front 15 pounds

So, it's no super-lightweight, but I sure some could be saved especially the rear if was a non-hinged "racing" version..

Terry, I hope to visit England perhaps next year and I hope to look up a lot of you guys..

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan B
David, do you mean from this angle or some other viewpoint?....funny really, I like the front arches from this view....it's other things I like less, but I won't say what unless anyone else mentions it too....
<snip>

It does look slighty different in real life and it is fairly small too.....

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David, again thanks (really...)

If you get time there are more pics here:

http://www.desicodesign.com/meerkat/Bodywork%202.htm

at the bottom of the page.

Again, thanks.

I must admit that I like the look of the car in the full-frontal view (the right-hand photo taken in the garden). There the wings look in proportion with the rest.

More and more I think that it's the thickness of the front wing arches that bothers me, especially in front of the wheel. They make the front of the car look heavy and slab sided from the side.

regards,

David
(well, you did say that I should speak freely... )

David, I do agree with you...I believe it was Terry who had a similar comment....(and my wife....).....

I'll see if I can do something with the front corners.......which ironically don't look as bad in this view.....IMO

The curving inwards of the sides ahead of the wheels is quite clear here, but not in other views.....

Either way, I'm either a crap car designer, or crap photographer...

Again, thanks for the feedback.

I was having the same thoughts regarding the portion of the wheel arch ahead of the wheel being too "beefy." However, I think that the comments regarding photography and front/top views vs. the side view give a clue as to how this visual "problem" can be dealt with. I think that you simply need something -- probably a paint line -- on the side of the arch to define it from the part that begins to curve to form the front bumper. I don't think that the arch is actually too thick, it's just that the illusion is given because of the unbroken vast expanse of red that is seen from a side view. I'll work on a crummy MS Paint pic and upload it to try an illustrate my solution.

-Winston

Winston, thanks, I'll forward to seeing your ideas.....

Sorry for the large BMP file, Paint wouldn't let me save it as a JPG.

I couldn't get just a line to look good, so I tried a "blackout" ala the Chevy Camaro.

I really think that part of the lack of definition is due to the flat, unbuffed bodywork. I think that that part is shiny, the definition will be visible.

-Winston

Thanks Winston, something like that has been suggested before......worth thinking about for sure.....

BTW, I've just thrown it open to opinions here too:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=42242&f=30&h=0

should be very interesting......

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan B
Snip.


Terry, I hope to visit England perhaps next year and I hope to look up a lot of you guys..

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Hi again Terry,

Your points are well received and understood, and I'll be glad to look at yours and anyone else's suggestions. In real life the front isn't really so bulky nor the narrow section quite so fragile looking...however, these photos are all you have to judge on, and if that exagerates certain "bad" features then that may be a good thing...

The basic shape concept is really one tapering cuboid (pyramid?) running into the base of another giving a distinct waist...almost wasp-like I guess....

The reason for the relatively "bulky" front end was to visually offset the rear which had to cover the engine.....It seems that has worked.....

It is ironic that side profile is my favourite view, but enough concerns about specific areas will cause me to take action.

Again, thanks for taking the time to share your views.

Alan,

Have you got a photo taken from the front quarter?

Might help to get another view of the 'problem' area.

cheers,

David

P.S. thinner arches sounds like a promising idea...

Alan,

On the constructive side, I've been trying to think of what i could suggest to improve the design of the front corner people seem to be making comments on.

I know a different type of car all together, but have you though of a re-shape, anything along the lines of this front corner?




Obviously a different ride height/splitter type, but a suggestion none the less....

Best of luck with the mods, whichever way you go!

Ned.

For David (and others...)

Front 3/4 view

Thanks for everything so far....very constructive...

That makes it look better...

As I looked at this I glanced at your new avatar - how about the way the front of the wing is drawn on that?

Sounds silly, but have a good look at it !

cheers,

David

Yes, I see what you mean, and agree.
It doesn't help that the lighting is very harsh and makes it looks worse, but some softening of the front corners wouldn't hurt...I have tried putting some vents/ducts on the skirt in the corners (in paintshop) and it helps the look a lot.

Whatever I do it will be a compromise, as some people have no problem with front, but some very subtle changes may please everyone....

It is a very a strange feeling to spend 15 months on something and be so close to the project that it is hard to know what you like or don't like......I have to pretend I'm seeing it for the first time....which is difficult..

I have the advantage that only one or two on here have.........seeing it in the flesh...

I suspect that colour (sorry - color ) is also an issue here - maybe that front wing would not be so prominent if the car was black, or a dark colour.

Saying that, an open sports car just HAS to be red, yellow or some other lurid colour!

David

Hi Alan,

I think you should try polishing it up a pit befroe you try changing the body design as it almost there an would look a lot different when you get all the little things on like mirrors, seats, painted roll bar etc and the correct reflections and shadows. One thing I would look at is the area going from the cockpit to the engine cover, at the moment I think it looks a bit too bland but when you get seats etc there it will look a lot different.

You could maybe make models of seats, fittings and vent grills etc and then take photos from various angles. I am not sure what you are intending for a windscreen but having an aeroscreen makes a huge differnce to looks and is easier to get right than a windscreen.

Just my thoughts

Other thing is I was wondering what you are doing about inside the wheelarches to catch dirt, water etc. I have been wondering about this for my design and am thinking either shaped GRP covers bonded to inside of panels or just use very thin aluminium on the frame to prevent the engine and brake cylinders getting covered in c***p.

Andy

Thanks Scouse, good feedback...(better than that nasty David guy............only joking mate)

You are right, it makes it harder asking people to look past the crap and picture it finished....I know how stuff will look...what I intend etc.....so maybe a few subtle changes, clean up and mocked-up features would help a lot......good luck with yours too...it's a lot of work...but worth it..

David, I think you are right about colour (I'm still English...).......some show things quite differently.......trouble is I HAVE to make it work in red.....

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan B
better than that nasty David guy

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I love this forum.....so more entertaining than work.......

Hi Alan, I'm just back from holidays and though I might chime in here.

I think you have done a very nice job with the design.

The thought that came to my mind as I was looking at the car was this; The bottom 4" of the front valance all the way back to the wheel arches could simply be painted black to reduce the amount of mass it conveys visually. My Jetta has this black area across the front and I also note in "Car and Driver" that the new Porsche Cayenne has a black valance treatment around the bottom rear and as they show a before/after photo comparison, it does really make a difference. (Try some black tape...)

At the rear you have done an admirable job. I think that possibly a small spoiler/wing mated to the frame where the rear fender starts to curve off would enhance this area and de-emphasize the "shortness" of it.

But overall, you have done an incredible job MAN!!! too cool!

Just my .00002 pence

Steve G.

Thanks Steve, some more good points.
The major manufacturers know all the tricks with colour and visual distractions....and wouldn't use them without cause...another thing I thought of was how often a bare car body shell looks a lot like the finished car......almost never.....the trim and coloured bits do make a big difference....

Hi Syd,

More good tips, thanks. Especially glad to hear of the modifying technique...sounds similar to what I had in mind - very reassuring...

The point about perfection is well noted too..you just can't please everyone.....and even pleasing the majority isn't necessarily a good thing either............I'll bet 20% loving it is better than 40% liking it........just liking it may not be enough to buy it...

I'd buy it.

But I'd put neon lights under the front end to improve the look.

Obviously I'm joking, but I like the look of that blue thing Ned posted.....

Loadsa work though...

Well everybody else has had a shot so here is my opinion for what its worth. Overall I like the look and would prefer it to say a seven type car. The thing that spoils it a bit for me is the front end. I think there is a bit of a lack of continuity between the front and the rear. The rear is quite rounded and I like the look. However, the front is very sharp edged and a bit bulky looking. If the front was a little bit more rounded I think it would match the rear and also look less bulky. Also maybe a little more curvature of the front looking from the plan view might help. Still pretty good for the first effort and you have a platform on which to develop and refine.

Paul, I appreciate the feedback...when I know what enough people are thinking I can do something about it.....seems some work on the front is inevitable, however after all the plug makiing for the bonnet etc. the actual moulding does need attention anyway, so some extra mods won't hurt...

Again everyone, thanks!

Hi Alan,

Here's my 2 cents worth. I pretty much agree with everything said so far - the rear looks good (looked great in black with the tooling gelcoat!) but the front looks .... hmmm.... mis-proportioned somehow? In a direct side view the flat area around the front wheel opening is so much wider at the front than the rear which makes it look nose heavy. I think Winston is on the right track with his modified image yesterday, wrapping the light opening around the side. That breaks up the flat area down to level with the leading edge of the bonnet (hood). Matched with a scoop/duct/grille in the section below the light, at the side, and it would probably remove the visual bulk. I'll try to mod Winston's image a little further when I get home to illustrate.

Overall, I'm mighty impressed with your progress. - congratulations.

As an aside - I was looking at the outside photos on your website. Is that the donor for the next project in the background of photo 4 ?

Best regards,

Dominic

Shhhh.....new book........


"Build your own construction equipment for....., and dig with it"

Thanks, for comments. I think it was you who suggested mods like Winston's in the past?

I can see the questions already - "I can't find a John Deere donor but I picked up an old International Harvester for cheap. Anyone know what top ball joint will fit?"

Yes, I did suggest mods like Winston's suggestion in the past although he's better at drawing it than me. I believe that if you can reduce the blank flat area around the front of the wheel arch to balance it with that behind then the apparent visual bulk will pretty much disappear.

The other (much more difficult) option would be to extend the nose by a good foot or so which would get rid of the 'snub nosed' appearance in profile. The Coram LMP is a good example of that shape. The current Meerkat profile is a bump (engine cover) with a forward wedge and then another bump. Extending the nose would make it more like a bump/wedge combo - a stylistic echo of the rear portion which would help to unify things front to rear.

Does that make any sense or does it just sound all art school wanky?

Dominic

Alan,

This is very crude and is obviously similar to what I did before, however the rounded top to the front wings do soften the front end somewhat!



Well I think so anyway!

Terry

Hi again Terry,

Yes, I think I will end up doing something like that.....the front corners will be easy to round off more.....I need to assess all the feedback and make a plan, but I don't think anyone will mind those corners a bit softer..

Thanks again

Alan, I have been following this thread wanting to be able to add something positive. There was something amiss but I couldn't put my finger on it until I saw Terry's reworking of the front end. It has a cohesive effect on the whole car. If only we had all piped up before you made the mould.
All that said I'm in awe of the Meerkat project and all your hard graft. Well done sir!
Regards
Ian

Can I ask a question about the wheelarches? The front ones form an arc greater than 180deg, but the rears don't appear to.

Camera angle? Design?

Aside: Will you be using the central tunnel to accelerate high pressure air into the engine bay. Suitably tapered from the front air dam, you could get quite a ram charge effect from that.

Cheers,

Neil.

Robin:

I have a bit of work on the body moulding anyway...a bit more won't hurt...sometimes you just have to make "something", then improve it....it's hard to develop or improve nothing......otherwise Ford would have made the Cortina Mk5 first, and not the others..

Noodle:

Design, but don't ask me why...there was a reason, but I don't recall it...Not really considered underfloor aerodynamics yet....maybe will have to soon I guess..

Again everyone thanks...

Alan,

My opinion of your car is... for you to just be happy with what you're building and, frankly, to hell with what other's think. I feel you'll just get endless opinions about "this being wrong," or "that's not right." To what end? I think you could spend years running about trying to please everyone, which is impossible.

Just build it and have fun.

Having said this, I take back everything if you plan to sell them... in that case yes, you have to find some magic shape which enough people will buy to make it worth your while.

Exactly...you have hit the nail on the head.....I do plan to "try" and sell some kits, so just pleasing me is not an option...

Your points about pleasing everyone are well taken though....I just have to analyse all the comments and the severity of them to formulate a plan.....

Oh well.......

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Jenkins
Hi Alan!

I've been looking at your design for a day or two... I was wondering whether to say anything, but then I thought that you had called for comments... so, please take what follows as constructive criticism!

The area around the front wheel arches really bothers me, but I can't work out why - perhaps it just looks too hefty in comparison with the rest, or maybe it's too square for my taste.

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quote:

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Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
........ But then Alan spends all that time at home....so much time after opening the cheques in the morning......

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