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Dean - 27/4/07 at 09:16 PM

In regards to a middy what would make a better engine chocie, 4age or B16a ?

kb58 - 27/4/07 at 09:27 PM

What's better, green or red, blond or brunette? Seriously, it depends on so many things that you aren't giving as background, that I can't give you a black-and-white answer. What's your budget, background, experience, access to these engines in your part of the world? Either engine can be made to work. There is no one answer.

Sorry to be terse, but these type of questions pop up all the time, and the answer, if there is one, is so subjective that it makes giving a real answer all but impossible.

I used a Honda engine, but other people say others are "better." Well, there you go, it's all subjective.

One thing that can help make up your mind is the gear ratios. Work backward from your selected tire size and see what you end up with for top speed and shift points. My book discusses this


[Edited on 4/27/07 by kb58]

DIY Si - 27/4/07 at 09:38 PM

Got to agree with him on this one. Personally I'd use a V6, so both are rubbish! Also, in what way do you mean better? MPG, power, height, gearbox ratios?

Hellfire - 27/4/07 at 10:03 PM

There can be only one.

BIKE ENGINE

Phil

gttman - 27/4/07 at 10:07 PM

.....and if youve got to go to the bother of building a mid engined car why setlle for anything less than a V12?

Dean - 27/4/07 at 10:20 PM

Ok then I have a few questions;

- Is either one more reliable for a racing platform?

- Which stock transmission would have the lowest possible gear ratios?

Kb58, why did you choose the h22? You must of looked at the 4age also.

Dean - 27/4/07 at 10:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by gttman
.....and if youve got to go to the bother of building a mid engined car why setlle for anything less than a V12?


The only v12 that is within reason is a jaguar and I like my engines running.

kb58 - 28/4/07 at 12:11 AM

Thanks guys, everyone here providing a great example of how independant we are. What one person likes, the next thinks is rubbish. That's the beauty of building your own - screw what everyone else likes.

Why did I choose the H22? Back in 1995 it was the engine to have (IMO of course) To me (subjective) the Toyota didn't have enough power (define "enough".)

Another variable I forgot is, what's the car for? You didn't say. If it's for racing, it really doesn't matter, both will be fine. If you mean "real" racing, then I'd probably choose the Toyota because it was used in a formula car series. It'll cost a fortune to build up, I suspect, but it'll rev to 10,000, and blow up in 10hrs, but you'll be rebuilding it more often then that anyway.

I discuss the Toyota in my book <cough>, saying it would cost too much by the time I built it up, and I was building a car, not an engine.

Keep in mind that your car will always weigh more than you wanted/expected, so having more power than you thought you needed will often end up about right. I had the illusion that my car would weigh 1000lbs, hahahahaha, the reality is it's 1600lbs. Oh well.

[Edited on 4/28/07 by kb58]

kb58 - 28/4/07 at 12:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Dean
The only v12 that is within reason is a jaguar and I like my engines running.


The BMW V12 can be had for about $500. Of course it'll need an aftermarket ECU and very expensive tranny, never mind expensive everything-else.

[Edited on 4/28/07 by kb58]

cs3tcr - 28/4/07 at 01:05 AM

There's nothing wrong with the 4AG. I used one in my Seven and am planning to use one in my mid-engined car, whenever i get around to it.

The 4AG in the Seven is making about 160 hp with carbs and cams. You can easily acheived 200 plus with a turbo, but just remember power = money.

Also, if you've considered using a Renault NG3 trans, there's a guy in Texas who's making an adapter for the 4AG to the french gearbox. But i assume that you were thinking about using the Toyota trans with the 4AG and mounting it transverse.

Just my 2 cents.

~Rod

Kaspa - 29/1/08 at 06:59 AM

as some of the guys have stated it all dpends on things like present availability, budget, what are you going to use it for etc, my choice was a Mitzi VR4 , 4G63 turbo 2ltr, reason, cheapest hp out there, i just spent $30g trying to get 300hp out of a toyota 3SGE N/A engine, and only just fell short,and what we wound up with was a 9000rpm screamer that lives on the edge, but for $2500 i buy a stock 4G63 with 250hp and can acheive 300hp by turning up the boost a little, simple choice realy, well to me anyway.
cheers Kaspa




[Edited on 29/1/08 by Kaspa]

sgraber - 29/1/08 at 06:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Dean
In regards to a middy what would make a better engine chocie, 4age or B16a ?


Although of the same displacement he B16a is a much more modern engine with more power and a higher redline. The B16a will cost about 3x as much as a 4AGE.

4AGE: There is nothing wrong with the 4AGE. It is bulletproof reliable and the 5 rib version with the forged pistons from the 87+ SC version is capable of handling 25psi of boost and have been dyno'd well into the 500hp range. Bluetop 3-rib version from the 85-86 MR2 put down 105hp stock. Don't even consider running more than 8psi of boost on the early blocks without replacing the cast pistons and lowering the compression. Bottom end parts are not interchangeable between the 2 models. It's nice to have the shifter assembly all factory engineered when using this driveline from the MR2. Think long and hard before deciding on a turbo boosted car that weighs 1,600 or less pounds that you intend to take to the track. Unless you have a very linear power delivery from the turbo you will find that the engine will come on boost coming out of the corners and this creates a lot of oversteer potential. I speak from personal experience and others may feel free to tell you otherwise. On the other hand a turbo small displacement car is really fun to drive on the street. Something I can also tell you from personal experience!

B16a - The J-spec sewing machine engine with swiss watch precision assembly. 175hp and 8,900rpm redline. More expensive than the 4AGE but much newer technology and with VTEC. You can't go wrong with this little engine. Super reliable and very easy to boost if that's your thing. But you won't need to as it is producing more power NA than the turbo bluetop 4AGTE. Put it this way. You will add about 50Lbs adding a turbo to the 4AGE and you still won't get as much power as the NA B16a. It's a very light engine and transaxle and will save big weight over the Toyota.

BTW- I just bought a B16a last week and when it arrives I am replacing the 4AGTE. I will certainly be able to give a more educated answer about the benefits and differences between these awesome little engines.