http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/GTM/gtmupdate/gtmrelease.html

This is from a well known/respected US cobra kit maker.

IMO, the styling is amateurish, some nice elements but as a whole doesn't work....

Hard to put your finger on specifics but if I had the cash I would still buy an Ultima, this car should be a rival but on styling it's not in the same league. (and I don't think the Ultima, although nice, is perfect either)

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery isn't it?
Looks a lot like the Saleen S7.

I agree with you Alan, the styling doesn't look quite right - there's something a bit off about the proportions. The same, of course, goes for the Saleen.

What is interesting is the almost complete re-use of the donor Corvette suspension. I'm not sure yet if that's clever or stupid

Oh, and the Ultima doesn't do it for me either.

Obligatory project update:
Recent deliveries to the workshop include 45m (140ft) of 25x25x1.6 RHS and a nice little box containing all of the suspension bushes, bush tubes, crush tubes, and brackets I'll need (assuming I don't change the suspension design again )

Now I need to do a few (dozen) more test pieces to get my welding back up to scratch and I'll be underway. And I have 15 days of leave still to go!

Dominic

Well, I have been following FFR for awhile now. I hope to build a Cobra after the Locost. I think they lost the vision of why they started building that car. They want an affordable Supercar. Well at $50k its still affordable but not nearly as if they stayed with the mustang donors.

I like this car better though. The top is a lemans car and the bottom is the GTM prototype


Ohh and I would way rather own an Ultima than the GTM, but its a personal choice. (that and when I saw a Ultima in person I fell in love!)

[Edited on 5/11/03 by Spottty]

IMHO it's the rear half of the car that doesn't look right.

Something is wrong with the roofline and the rear end, particularly around the wheel arch area looks awkward.

I think the Ultima looks a lot more coherent in it's overall shape.

Just my personal views though!!!

Nick

I quite like the bodywork, kinda like a cross between an oversized noble and a ferrari moderna.

looking at the chassis frame i do not like the curved bars, they should be straight and forming nice triangles.

bit out of my league though...

oh and theres something out of place on the sied profile view, can't put my finger on it though...

Ned.

quote:

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Originally posted by ned

looking at the chassis frame i do not like the curved bars, they should be straight and forming nice triangles.

Ned.

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Guys, thanks for the input.
It all seems inline with my thinking too, so maybe my opinions aren't too far off the wall..

Dominic, yes I agree about the Corvette parts..it's got to be hard to break a Corvette......interestingly, these guys http://www.moslerauto.com/index.html
have basically done the same.....made a mid-engined 'Vette....

It will be interesting to see how FFR do with this new model..........it certainly doesn't seem like any of us agree with the "awesome" tag they have given it....

Another one I'm watching is of course MK's new GT2....

Hmmm

The styling is let down by the side windows, they are breaking the "flow".
The proportion of the front, mid and rear section seams strange (in some pic/views anyway).
Could the windscren be taken from a Ford GT40 replica?
Rear window very strange shape...


The Mosler 900 is so much better.
And has some kind of carbon chassi.

my view....

Must admit I like it.

However where I think it is going wrong is the hard edge going around the front.
It is a very curvy shape, very much like a cross between a GT40 and a Porsche GT car. There should be no sharp corners on the front at all to fit with it's overall styling. I think they did this to give it a waist line, where a swage line would have done beter.
That rear wing looks too much like an after thought as well and does not match the car at all.
A wing would look good on it, but it needs to be deeper and mounted a bit higher.

All my humblest of opinions of course!

Terry

The styling isn't bad but looks a little wierd at the back. its almost like the cockpit area is too small or tapers off too quickly. The frame looks somewhat less than optimal but better than some I've seen. I would imagine that the ultima is stiffer especially around the open door area. Little side impact protection to speak of though.

There is another middy in the Ultima mould although with a lot more high tech construction that I know about in development in the US. Can't give away any more info than that at the moment

[Edited on 5/11/03 by ProjectLMP]

Nose just seems to be a cheap immitation of a ferrari - not at all original...

Yes, I thought that...kind of 360 looking...

I don't mean to be too critical because I know just how hard styling is, but I'd have thought someone like FFR would have got a pro involved....to me it looks like one their own people has done it...again not a dig, but it is easy to stand back at look at your own or colleagues work and just go wow!.....

I still think they're trying to copy the Saleen S7 - viz:



What they've done wrong is to lose all of the careful attention to detail and proportion that makes the S7 look OK (not fantastic, but OK to my eyes at least).

Oh well, another missed opportunity to actually make something new and good.

Dominic

Dominic, I totally agree.

The S7 is much better, but far from perfect..

Have you seen one in real life?.....the rear end is huge...especially over the rear arches and back....

IMO it needs to be 10 inches shorter.

This has been a strange one for me as I keep looking at the car and thinking "I like that". But thats the problem. I like bits of the car, a curve here and a line there. Put them together and it oh so very nearly works (for me) but just quite doesn't - when you add the price tag, well, nearly works isn't nearly enough!

Mike.....well put.

Some nice bits, but as a whole not quite right......

The back end, looks to me, like pure ferrari P4. The doors have undertones of GT40 and the front looks very Fiat Coupe the ferrari extensions.

It looks like they have picked the most distinctive parts of some beautiful cars and blended them together

now just you wait till i've finished my locost and start on my F1 road replica ..... then you'll see a beautiful car (circa 2020 at my curent rate of progress).

I spotted the Fiat Coupe bit at the front. I knew i'd seen the rear lip before but couldn't think where. I think the line going across the front is because its a separate peice for the bonnet. On another picture its not as obvious which looks better.

Isn't the Saleen a Corvette underneath?

Hmmm.....not sure

Doesn't Saleen have Ford connections?

quote:

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Doesn't Saleen have Ford connections?

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quote:

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The S7 engine and drive train are Saleen designed and incorporate modern racing motor technology and engineering. Saleen/Allen Speedlab race team engine builder, Bill Tally, is the engine’s designer. Based on a Ford-cast all aluminum block re-engineered by Saleen, the cam-in-block 7-litre motor generates 550 horsepower at 6400 rpm. Redline is 7000 rpm. The motor delivers 520 foot-pounds of torque at 4000 rpm. Space age materials and engineering are used throughout: magnesium throttle body and intake manifolds, carbon fiber induction system, stainless steel valves, titanium retainers, beryllium exhaust valve seats, ceramic coated stainless steel exhaust system, and race-derived all-aluminum CNC machined Saleen designed heads.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by TheGecko
............I love the way a pushrod motor is now called 'cam-in-block' ..........

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So its not the saleen then,
my mistake (probably alchahol induced) thinking on it i might have been thinking about the Mosler...

Yes, thay's funny...nearly as bad as the "front-mid-engine" bulls**t that some manufacturers come out with...if the engine is in FRONT of the driver it is FRONT engined........no matter how well balanced the car is....

End of rant..

That would be called a tractor!

LMAO....

quote:

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Originally posted by MikeR
That would be called a tractor!

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That Saleen has got more gills than a school of mackeral and a bigger butt than J Lo!
What about some plastic surgery, like this:
Rescued attachment E500_S7Proflie.jpg

I like it, i'll take two please...

much better than the original - in fact all you probably needed to do was cut down that rear end. Never been a fan of big rear ends!

Geoff, yes exactly what it needed....looks much better now......

S7 actual hugeness.......



S7 rear

Geoff,

Your cosmetic surgery has done wonders for the S7. Nice work.

A close friend of mine just came back from 3 days at SEMA in Las Vegas (you Brits must know what that is right?). He took lots o'photos of some mid-engine vehicles in various states of undress.

I asked him to look specifically for mid-engine cars for me. What suprised me was his observation that mainly what was on the floor at SEMA were large displacement longitudinal V8 middies. Almost no transverse, small displacement, lightweight cars.

quote:

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Originally posted by sgraber
I asked him to look specifically for mid-engine cars for me. What suprised me was his observation that mainly what was on the floor at SEMA were large displacement longitudinal V8 middies. Almost no transverse, small displacement, lightweight cars.

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Ironic, but in the UK a Ferrari is classed as a large car!

Porsches used to small cars, but are more middleweight these days due to the heavy reliance on US sales.

Terry

saw a lexus gs430 today, bloody huge!! higher than one of the pumped up soft roaders, like the big xsara, fusion etc. must weigh a ton. or 3 actually! closer to a stretched offroader.

I come from the land of huge cars and SUV's and I personally can't stand them! Note that I said 'personally". I don't mind that others drive them. To each their own. I drive a Jetta IV and even that weighs over 3,200Lbs. That's just ridiculous, it's a pretty small car!

Graber

Kinda changed the topic din't we?