sgraber
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 09:29 PM |
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Radiator Plumbing
Radiator plumbing for la Bala. I have decided to go with front radiator rather than the more complex twin rear rads I originally specified.
Would copper tubing like that found at the local hardware store for home plumbing (1-1/4" for example) with propane soldered 90's and
45's work in this application? What wall thickness is best?
Other suggestions?
Graber
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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MrFluffy
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 12:22 AM |
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pipe
i ran my kitcar that im converting to midengine for a while with a ford cvh hooked onto a vw transaxle and ran ordinary soldered plumbing copper to
the rad up front. The only real concession was that it was solid down the trans tunnel, but gates-o-flex hose from there to the radiator and motor to
allow movement. I didnt do this as I got the car in this format but with a pinto, but Im lead to believe it had been done for several years previous
to me and it was still useable when I ripped it out.
someone had soldered a olive at the end of the pipe to form a locating bead to stop the hose blowng off and it was well supported in tiiewrap saddles
along its length and coated with schultz sealer to protect it.
Wall thickness wise, well I didnt measure it, but it didnt strike me at the time as being anything ou the ordinary.
Hope this helps.. Love your chassis!
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sgraber
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 02:56 AM |
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When you say Olive, what exactly would that be? I can't imagine that welding olives to copper is very easy. Must take a special wire and
gas.... DOH!
In any case, thanks!
Steve G
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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merkurman
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 03:04 AM |
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not sure exactly what an olive is...must be a goofy brit thing. but you coupld solder a length of copper wire over teh end for the hose to grab
onto. also could get some 1.25" jbends from summit or jegs and weld it up that way. the ford 2.3L turbo cars have a few steel heater hose
lines on them and most have held up for 20 years. but some are starting to go. might want to look at a hydraulic hose shop. they are real cheap and
could do a solid line with a rubber end with whater fittings you want (-12 or -16 maybe) they might be able to bend it if you can give them the bend
data but not sure. I would look into that route as it is cheap and less work for you with a real nice end product.
nick
1962 fairlane with a 200" six and T5 5spd, shaved trim air ride, t3/t4 turbo and soon to be EFI
-- looking to put a offy tripower intake on soon
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TheGecko
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 04:18 AM |
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An olive is a shaped ring that slides over the end of copper pipes in plumbing as a seat for sompression type fittings. See this
*link* for a diagram.
Most of the ones I've envountered are some sort of plastic but I've seen them in copper and brass.
Dominic
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MrFluffy
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 12:52 PM |
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olives
TheGecko is spot on, just a regular plumbing crush olive, in the original application they slide onto the pipe and are crushed onto it to seal, hence
the full title. On this one, the builder had just flowed solder in between the olive and pipe to secure it from sliding. They come sized to the tube
and here you can get the copper or brass ones at any plumbing merchants and they have a nice radius'd outer so they dont tear the inside of the
rubber tubing when your sliding it over it...
I think ive been building my house too long, just another 6 months and I can forget what a olive looks like 
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sgraber
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 01:15 PM |
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Ah! A compression ring! Now that's a good idea.
I recall seeing brass compression fittings, but nothing larger than 1/2".
I think I'll take a run over to the local plumbing superstore and have a look.
Can anyone tell me if metal such as brass can be 'soldered/brazed' onto copper using standard plumbing methods?
See this page <http://www.ffcobra.com/FAQ/enginecooling.html> for another idea I just found.
Man - This forum can really be a gold-mine of info (sometimes). 
[Edited on 8/8/03 by sgraber]
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Alan B
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 02:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
.......Can anyone tell me if metal such as brass can be 'soldered/brazed' onto copper using standard plumbing methods? ........
Brass to copper with solder?....absolutely Steve..
Think how most (older) radiators are made.......
However, I wouldn't braze brass (too close in melting points) although hard (silver) solder is OK......but regular soft solder is fine...
Steve, how come you guys pronounce solder as "sawder"...???
Alan B
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sgraber
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 03:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan B
Brass to copper with solder?....absolutely Steve.. Think how most (older) radiators are made.......
Steve, how come you guys pronounce solder as "sawder"...???
Alan B
Since I am just a youngster (37) compared to you <just ribbing you Alan!>, I really only know about plastic and aluminuim radiators... They
used to be made out of Brass you say?! I thought only balls were made out of that stuff.
In the place where I come from it's actually pronounced saulder (with a silent 'L" , not sawder. Note the differentiation of the
tongue thrust. Do you brits really say Sol-der?! You're so "literal"! <GRIN>
Graber
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Alan B
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 04:17 PM |
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Brass casings and copper fins IIRC....and I'm sure you knew that...
Anyway, I'm only 19.....just had a hard life that's all........
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sgraber
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 04:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan B
Brass casings and copper fins IIRC....and I'm sure you knew that...
Anyway, I'm only 19.....just had a hard life that's all........
Yes, I knew that. but for some odd reason I thought that the brazing process was more complex with brass to copper... I've lead a sheltered
life myself.
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Alan B
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 04:50 PM |
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yes....brazing brass is difficult.....but, regular soldering isn't.....
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merkurman
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 05:37 PM |
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I would think the olvie would be a little too large in diameter to fit the hose over it (esp in a 1.25" size). I would think a little length of
solid copper wire bent around the tube and soldered would work just fine too say something around a 12ga wire?
nick
1962 fairlane with a 200" six and T5 5spd, shaved trim air ride, t3/t4 turbo and soon to be EFI
-- looking to put a offy tripower intake on soon
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Rorty
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| posted on 9/8/03 at 03:26 AM |
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Copper tube works fine. In my early, pre aluminium tube/bead rolling/TIG welding days, I used plenty of copper, and also soldered on olives for hose
retention. Sometimes I found a really good shape of hose to suit the application, but it would be the wrong size for the copper tube. In such cases, I
would solder a straight connector/reducer onto the end of the copper tube to resize it. The beads on the connectors that hold the solder, also make
excellent hose retainers.
sgrabber: quote:
Do you brits really say Sol-der?! You're so "literal"!
Hey! It's our language, not yours Steve! 
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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sgraber
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| posted on 9/8/03 at 07:11 AM |
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Thanks. Rorty, that's excellent advice.
Rorty wrote - Hey! It's our language, not yours Steve! - I don't have to say I was kidding about the language thing right? Just
checking. And now I'm going to have some toast and Jelly. Whooops! I mean Jam.
Graber
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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MrFluffy
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| posted on 9/8/03 at 02:11 PM |
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plastic
Just a thought, but has anyone looked into using PEX plastic piping? it comes in hot variants too in a huge variant of sizes (usually colour coded
red suprisingly ) and comes with weird olive based compression joints that interface to regular threaded unions that are good to well past
5bar...
I think copper is the easiest personally, but im just curious that plastic could be a more modern solution..
just to put a different tack on things
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