Gakes
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| posted on 6/3/09 at 09:37 AM | |
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Atomesque middy plans for sale!!!
Hi all,
Did some revision changes to my plans to make the build easier and cheaper.
So now I'm selling them at 350U$ dollars if anynone is interested.
Visit http://sites.google.com/site/xocars/ for info or ccontact me xosportscars@gmail.com
 
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 6/3/09 at 09:43 AM | |
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dude write a book...or do a web site with instructions and photo's you pay membership to use and download plans
cos if you don't then someone else will, with your hard work...
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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tegwin
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| posted on 6/3/09 at 09:44 AM | |
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Awsome..... worth a read....
(its worth noting that if you are selling commercial products or services on this site you do have to pay for the right to do so!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would the last person who leaves the country please switch off the lights and close the door!
www.verticalhorizonsmedia.tv
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Gakes
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| posted on 6/3/09 at 09:53 AM | |
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quote:
Mr Whippy posted on 6/3/09 at 12:43 PM dude write a book...or do a web site with instructions and photo's you pay membership to use and download
plans cos if you don't then someone else will, with your hard work...
Its worth a shot, thanks for the suggestion.
quote:
tegwin posted on 6/3/09 at 12:44 PM Awsome..... worth a read.... (its worth noting that if you are selling commercial products or services on this
site you do have to pay for the right to do so!)
Oops . What does it cost and who do i chat to??
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mads
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| posted on 6/3/09 at 10:36 AM | |
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quote:
Oops. What does it cost and who do i chat to??
Contact Fozzie or ChrisW
We gain knowledge faster than we do wisdom!
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in
sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip!"
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gingerprince
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| posted on 6/3/09 at 12:59 PM | |
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quote:
Originally posted by Gakes
So now I'm selling them at 350U$ dollars if anynone is interested.
Is that Ugandan dollars? Pretty cheap 
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Gakes
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| posted on 6/3/09 at 01:36 PM | |
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holy crap wot happend to the bonnet on ur avatar
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designer
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| posted on 6/3/09 at 01:46 PM | |
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Any plans over £40- 50 will not sell.
Locost plans cost the price of a book, and you get a read, a very general read I know, but a read non the less.
The days of Formula 27, or Evolution 7, plans at £80 are over.
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cloudy
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| posted on 6/3/09 at 01:59 PM | |
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For it to be attractive to UK buyers (as the majority of this forum are) You are going to first need to offer one, perhaps at cost to a UK builder -
and get it through SVA successfully. I think more people would then go for it...
James
www.warnercars.com
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Gakes
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| posted on 6/3/09 at 02:19 PM | |
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Sorry but thats way too little for all the effort and costs to have made it work. Anyone thats going to try there own build will shortly realize
something like this is an easier way out.
James, u shud know how much effort it took.
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designer
Any plans over £40- 50 will not sell. Locost plans cost the price of a book, and you get a read, a very general read I know, but a read non the less.
The days of Formula 27, or Evolution 7, plans at £80 are over.
locst plans are free for everyone on the net, u dont even have to buy the book, just browse
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designer
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| posted on 6/3/09 at 03:31 PM | |
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If the price is right people will buy plans just to see them. I would.
Most people who bought the Locost books did not build.
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orton1966
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| posted on 7/3/09 at 12:23 PM | |
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Better Pictures
I really like the concept but unless I’m missing something I think your site needs some better pictures, especially showing some of the finer build
detail, suspension etc.
I think this is especially important, at what many have already commented, is a premium price. From my own prospective I would pay the kind of money
your asking if I knew the following:
The spaceframe was exceptionally well designed with good 3 dimensional triangulation.
The underlying design criteria behind the suspension and steering geometry i.e as a designer what have you prioritised controlling, scrub, camber
change etc.?
More information about engine options, Audi engines, which ones, the transverse or the in-line versions?
Estimated completed weight and build cost.
Source of other major build components i.e. uprights front and rear.
I’m certainly not trying to knock what you’ve done and I certainly think there is a market for a well thought out and marketed set of plans. However
as someone else pointed out it’s either got to be priced so low that someone will buy speculatively, possibly never then building or the perspective
buyer must have all the information in advance to reassure them that their money will not be wasted
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cheapracer
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| posted on 7/3/09 at 03:04 PM | |
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What did I miss in the interim?
A few weeks ago you drove it for the very first time, had major steering problems and yet the build plans are available?
That just doesn't compute.
It's coming....
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dream
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| posted on 7/3/09 at 03:53 PM | |
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350 dollar?not wort it i think
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Gakes
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 07:08 AM | |
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quote:
orton1966
Junior Builder Posts 16 Registered 31/8/08 Member Is Online Building: posted on 7/3/09 at 03:23 PM Better Pictures I really like the concept but
unless I’m missing something I think your site needs some better pictures, especially showing some of the finer build detail, suspension etc. I think
this is especially important, at what many have already commented, is a premium price. From my own prospective I would pay the kind of money your
asking if I knew the following: The spaceframe was exceptionally well designed with good 3 dimensional triangulation. The underlying design criteria
behind the suspension and steering geometry i.e as a designer what have you prioritised controlling, scrub, camber change etc.? More information about
engine options, Audi engines, which ones, the transverse or the in-line versions? Estimated completed weight and build cost. Source of other major
build components i.e. uprights front and rear. I’m certainly not trying to knock what you’ve done and I certainly think there is a market for a well
thought out and marketed set of plans. However as someone else pointed out it’s either got to be priced so low that someone will buy speculatively,
possibly never then building or the perspective buyer must have all the information in advance to reassure them that their money will not be wasted
You are spot on, these are details I have to add to gain confidence in my plans. I've been so busy recently that I only had time to through
together a site with a short description of the car. Thanks for the tips, I will update the info and details.
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cheapracer
Junior Builder Posts 28 Registered 29/11/08 Member Is Offline Building: Exo Skeleton middy posted on 7/3/09 at 06:04 PM What did I miss in the
interim? A few weeks ago you drove it for the very first time, had major steering problems and yet the build plans are available? That just
doesn't compute.
I havent been posting my solutions much really if u havent noticed, all I mostly do is post questions if I'm not sure. My steering problem was
one of the easiest things to sort out. I did lots of research, bought a couple of books and it was a simple thing. My castor, camber and toe-in were
all out, so it was basically an alignment issue. I can give you ALL the suspension settings you'll need to setup this car. I am that
confident in my suspension design. As you should know, its all down to the suspension setup if you have a good chassis.
quote:
dream J
unior Builder Posts 36 Registered 13/3/03 Member Is Offline Building: posted on 7/3/09 at 06:53 PM 350 dollar?not wort it i think
Well my friend, look around on this forum and see the amount of time (some over three years) and effort it takes to design and build something like
this. My time is very important to me, I would have liked a heads-up of predesigned plans to cut the design and build time.
Don't misunderstand what I'm doing ladies,I'm not forcing anyone to buy these plans, its available for those that want
plans.
Those that don't want plans, pls don't post here, if you moan about price, ITS NOT FOR YOU-GO CHECKOUT CHEAPER PLANS, I'm not
forcing anyone!
Those that are interested can post questions relating to the build or the design, and I will answer to the best of my knowledge
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dream
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 09:15 AM | |
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remember this is a locost forum,you dare to ask 350 for,congratulations,everybody's time is valuable,not just yours,
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Gakes
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 01:38 PM | |
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Not constructive again, keep dreaming dude.
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cloudy
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 02:22 PM | |
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Gakes, I can see this thread going the wrong way - granted you are seeing varied opinions, but making snide jokes towards other members usernames in
front of potential customers is plain bad business. Take the negative onboard gracefully and thank the praise...
All the best with the endeavour
James
www.warnercars.com
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dinosaurjuice
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 05:26 PM | |
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quote:
Originally posted by Gakes
Not constructive again, keep dreaming dude.
i hope this is what you class as constructive...
firstly, front lower wishbone:
 
25mm tube with the shock mounted half way along. not good. see here: bent bones
AND,
single shear bolts on rear shocks, into what looks like 3mm plate? not good.
i apologise if this isnt the publicity and positive comments you were looking for. but its equally as important. its all very well doing things the
easy way when its your own car and only youll be driving it (some decisions on my build were not the best) but when other people will be having
confidence in your plans and following them religiously, its dangerous.
Will
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 08:41 PM | |
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quote:
Originally posted by Gakes
Not constructive again, keep dreaming dude.
I know it will hurt your feelings - I am sorry, but you shouldn't be giving that design away let alone selling it. It is full of many basic
errors.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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cheapracer
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| posted on 9/3/09 at 05:48 AM | |
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quote:
Originally posted by Gakes
Not constructive again, keep dreaming dude.
Some years ago I was involved in the tow truck industry, not as a driver but I still had the misfortune to be in attendance at car crash scenes before
others (in Oz tow truck companies pay if you ring them and they get the tow job so Joe public rings the towies first, ambulance second) - car crashes
are not pretty things, some of the sights, especially children, tend to stick in your mind for the rest of your life and when I see your car with your
own admitted problems which you have not proved to be resolved, it makes me worry for the safety of others.
Get your car sorted out and show a little more effort to quality and safety before you offer build plans to those who you may genuinely put at risk
including other road users.
I didn't see the control arms and suspension work up close before, but now that I have I would rate it as a very low standard of design and
execution.
I sincerly hope you take everyone's critism on board and aim higher, you may be dissapointed but I'm sure you will find everyone here
supportive and helpful if you are sincere to improve.
It's coming....
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Gakes
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| posted on 9/3/09 at 06:24 AM | |
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Firstly guys, I apologize for getting a bit steamed up.
Secondly, If you've read the whole thread, you will come across a section:
quote:
Gakes
Hi all,
Did some revision changes to my plans to make the build easier and cheaper.
So now I'm selling them at 350U$ dollars if anynone is interested.
Visit http://sites.google.com/site/xocars/ for info or ccontact me xosportscars@gmail.com
It states that I have made revision changes, things such as those posted above, have been looked at and changed.
It is also my fault not posting what type of changes have been made, but I also wrote :
quote:
Gakes
I havent been posting my solutions much really if u havent noticed, all I mostly do is post questions if I'm not sure. My steering problem was
one of the easiest things to sort out. I did lots of research, bought a couple of books and it was a simple thing. My castor, camber and toe-in were
all out, so it was basically an alignment issue. I can give you ALL the suspension settings you'll need to setup this car. I am that confident in
my suspension design. As you should know, its all down to the suspension setup if you have a good chassis.
I will post the design improvements made to the vehicle or a more descriptive website.
Again I say that I apologize bcos as I read thru previous threads, including this one, I havent mentioned or posted any of the improvements. My car
was basically a prototype for me to design from. 3D designers work this way, so certain things have to be mocked up before I fully understand how it
works. My new suspension design has lots input from "The sports car and kit car SUSPENSION AND BRAKES high performance manual" (Speed pro
series). I attached a front lower wishbone picture as an example.
 
Rescued attachment Fr_lower_A-ARM.jpg
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balidey
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| posted on 9/3/09 at 08:21 AM | |
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How are you selling the plans? I would suggest you set up a Lulu book (google it if you don't know what it is) and then customers can order a
finished book, without you having to get any published.
And as said before, the price needs to be lower to attract buyers. You can still buy plans from Allan Staniforth for a world record beating car for a
lot less, and thats from someone that WROTE the suspension books that others now copy.
IMHO a set of plans needs to be under £50 GBP. And you'd better hurry to reduce the price as there are already a handfull of people that have
made atomesque middies that have been asked for plans, so you could soon be up against some very good competition.
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cloudy
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| posted on 9/3/09 at 09:47 AM | |
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Gakes you state you fully understand how suspension works, but yet have made some really basic mistakes. The fact you've painted those parts
shows to some degree to us that you intended they would do the job. This may not be the case - but you need to show far more detail in the revised
setup first
It's premature to offer build plans until your car has proven itself with some hard miles under it's belt.
www.warnercars.com
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Gakes
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| posted on 9/3/09 at 10:13 AM | |
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I'm not saying I fully understand , what I am saying is that I've done lots of research and calculations. The first setup was merely in
prototype form, if it did work, then it was gr8 and its painted  , but it didn't and it was a learning curve. The info and data from the first
setup was recorded and necessary changes were made to the model.
ie. my first setup had too much camber and castor, 12 degrees and 8 degrees respectively. The steering geometry was only a mockup and bump steer was
noticeable as I made it work in the meantime.These things are also costly, so made use of what I had. Another example is that the steering of a FWD
VW turns opposite to that of a Cortina/Sierra.
Don't think I take any of this lightly. I have invested in tools and gadgets ( Lasers, levels, straight edges and angle finding/ measuring tools
etc) to precisely measure and then record the data. This is what I expect all builders do, bcos industrial designers do.
Nobody can make a full list of parts they going to use for something that they haven't done before.
What I've learnt from my years in the industrial design industry is that companies do not over spend on prototypes, theres a budget and a
target, and everyone works towards that.
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