markf
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| posted on 29/7/08 at 06:17 PM |
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mid engine chassis?
evening all,
i know this has been asked many times before,and sorry for being stupid and lazy, but could some one point me in the right direction,
where,and if available, can i find plans for a mid engined locost, as i have a 1988 ZX10 that im thinking about using, and what about the pros and
cons.
cheers
mark
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quinnj3
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| posted on 29/7/08 at 06:35 PM |
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Lancia
take a look at this very nice but not exactly locost would be a nice wee project!
my aim is to build my own locost wether it takes me a week or 10 years to get started, i'm sure i will sometime
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mr henderson
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| posted on 29/7/08 at 06:38 PM |
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Well, 36 views and no replies so I suppose I had better have a go.
I don't know of any plans for a mid-engined chassis in the way that there are for front engined versions.
If you really want to use that engine why not go for a front engined car and get the benefit of the plans (such as the Haynes Roadster) that can be
bought for the price of the book?
If you really want to do the mid engined thing then you are going to have to draw your own plans, or do what a lot of guys here do and just wing
it.
You will need to make a lot of decisions before you satart though, kie what suspension you will use, and how you will get drive to the rear wheels etc
etc
John
Edited to add- must type faster!
[Edited on 29/7/08 by mr henderson]
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Alan B
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| posted on 29/7/08 at 06:55 PM |
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I get asked a lot for plans..but I'd sooner people just browsed what I did and be inspired by the good bits and go from there.
For me to release any kind of drawings they'd have to be proven, tested and updated to a high standard and that will take me time...time that
people seem unwilling to pay for.
The other aspect is liability.....people just don't want the risk of being sued so there is little incentive to share their designs....
Until I'm at the point of doing a book, be it Ron/Chris style or Kurt style, then I'll just be sharing photos and ideas.
Alan
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Syd Bridge
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| posted on 29/7/08 at 07:00 PM |
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I believe most, if not all, of the guys here doing their own middies, have engineering qualifications of some sort, or have help from engineering
professionals. To say they are 'winging it', would be a very long way from the truth, and doing them a gross disservice.
There are a couple of projects worth a second look, and a couple of production kits worth a look for inspiration.
Cheers,
Syd.
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 29/7/08 at 07:44 PM |
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Iv been trying to draw out a mid engine chassis based on the Locost but carnt seem to get the portions to look as good as the locost. the back jsut
ends up looking weird.
seems to be what mark is looking for and a lot of others
anyone out ther done it yet?
Cheers,
nev.
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les g
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| posted on 29/7/08 at 07:49 PM |
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what about the new chassis by mk
cheers les g
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kb58
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| posted on 29/7/08 at 08:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville JonesIv been trying to draw out a mid engine chassis based on the Locost but carnt seem to get the portions
to look as good as the locost. the back jsut ends up looking weird.
Styling is a completely different - and more difficult - topic than the engineering of it. Emotions usually win over equations!
Alan, I agree completely with you comments, and have thought long and hard about the liability of it all. And as you said, finishing the first car
isn't the end of it. There's testing, possible refinements, drawing the plans, then writing the book. It's a long path to create a
watertight product.
[Edited on 7/29/08 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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zilspeed
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| posted on 29/7/08 at 09:21 PM |
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If I may chip in some slight advice.
We have a ZX10 and chain drive expert in here in the form of minitici.
He provided me with an extremely simple wiring diagram for the old Kwak.
That's the engine I'm using so would be keen to assist in any way I can.
Cheers
John F
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jimmyjoebob
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| posted on 29/7/08 at 09:36 PM |
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Liability aside, simply laying out the components you have on a large sheet of card board complete with a seat form is a good starting point. You can
quickly sketch up where your suspension needs to sit, allowing for a comfortable cabin size etc.
For simplicity, you could buy the front and rear subframes from an mr2. Laying these out over your floor sketch would show you where to start
triangulating to make a rigid 3d design. For a reference take a look at the Sylva Riot frame.
If at first you don't succeed, hide all evidence you ever tried!
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Delinquent
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| posted on 29/7/08 at 11:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Syd BridgeTo say they are 'winging it', would be a very long way from the truth, and doing them a gross
disservice.
ermm.... ahhhh... oops 
I'll be the one legging it (winging it?) for the door. 
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mr henderson
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| posted on 30/7/08 at 07:05 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jimmyjoebob
Liability aside, simply laying out the components you have on a large sheet of card board complete with a seat form is a good starting point. You can
quickly sketch up where your suspension needs to sit, allowing for a comfortable cabin size etc.
That is what I meant by 'winging it'. In other words, not designing the whole thing on paper or in CAD first.
Seems simple, straight froward and effective to me.
John
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hughpinder
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| posted on 30/7/08 at 09:05 AM |
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have a look at the onyx mongoose - someone has done one of them mid engined using a ZX10 engine
http://onyxmongoosezx10.blogspot.com
regards
Hugh
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sgraber
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| posted on 31/7/08 at 09:44 PM |
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Since I am not a registered trader I am not going to suggest you purchase anything from me... However - If you don't like the look of the
current crop of middies just build a your own chassis to fit my bodywork. It's a low cost middy setup.
Just visit my website for lots of information...
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Gakes
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| posted on 4/8/08 at 05:42 PM |
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love the colour dude
 
Description
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jimmyjoebob
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| posted on 5/8/08 at 09:40 PM |
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Sketching out where components are at an early stage still allows for the chassis design to be finalised on cad. It simply aids positioning of main
load points before structural framework is set.
Surely this can be considered basic research rather than 'winging it'?
If at first you don't succeed, hide all evidence you ever tried!
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 8/8/08 at 04:19 AM |
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Isnt it a bit Ironic, that a Locost Builder accuses others of "Winging it"!!
I think what he means though, is "the trial and execution of ones ideas, through engineering experiment and design"....
We must all admit that at some point, there has and always will be a time where the phrase "...Ah, thatll do" or "thats near
enough" will come into play.
Some have tools such as CAD, and others use cardboard layouts or models to picture their design. Ive tried them all, and i think its individual to
the builder how they picture, design and adjust to suit the needs of the build.
Cad drawings are really good, but it is difficult to reverse engineer a whole build. It is better to work from drawings, but even then, youll find
you need to adjust slightly, which in theory, defeats the object of having a drawing!!!
[Edited on 8/8/08 by MakeEverything]
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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mr henderson
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| posted on 8/8/08 at 07:25 AM |
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OK well this is the second time I've been picked up on my 'winging it' comment. (the first time was just an opportunistic snipe)This
is what I said-
"If you really want to do the mid engined thing then you are going to have to draw your own plans, or do what a lot of guys here do and just
wing it. "
It seems perfectly clear to me. It poses two alternatives. The first to completely design the car and then build it in the same way as if one was
following a published design. The second is to not do that. And the second is the way that it will happen in most cases.
If you show me someone who claims to have done an absolutely, in every detail, complete design before picking up his first piece of chassis material
and attaching it to the second piece, then I will show you somebody who is not telling us the whole story.
Obviously one is going to have to do some design work before starting, or else how are you going to know how long the first piece of steel is going to
be? One shouldn't need to spell out everything!
Even large manufacturers build mock-ups and prototypes.
John
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Fred W B
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| posted on 8/8/08 at 08:21 AM |
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Those of us who work in engineering will know that the first "proto" build of a fully engineered/drawn item is in fact to prove the
drawings. Mistakes are made in everthing.
I work with a computer all day, so in my spare time in the garage I prefer to go straight to "mock up" . Drawings are then only really
necessary if you want to build another, or if you need to get parts made by another party
Cheers
Fred W B
and
You can do it quickly. You can do it cheap. You can do it right. – Pick any two.
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rpmagazine
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| posted on 8/8/08 at 09:49 AM |
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Indeed a mockup helps a lot:
www.racemagazine.com.au
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Fred W B
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| posted on 8/8/08 at 11:40 AM |
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Personally, I prefer to rough work in steel, because its so easy to tack together, but each to his own
Cheers
Fred W B
[img][/img]
You can do it quickly. You can do it cheap. You can do it right. – Pick any two.
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CraigJ
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| posted on 9/8/08 at 01:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by hughpinder
have a look at the onyx mongoose - someone has done one of them mid engined using a ZX10 engine
http://onyxmongoosezx10.blogspot.com
regards
Hugh
That will be me lol.
I have just sold the ZX10 engine about an hour ago lol, its going to be fitted into a Haynes roadster buy its new owner.
Not sure what engine to use now, tempted to go for a K series and supercharge it but not that sure. Got bord of the bike engine idea.
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Joe T
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| posted on 9/8/08 at 08:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Fred W B
I work with a computer all day, so in my spare time in the garage I prefer to go straight to "mock up" . Drawings are then only really
necessary if you want to build another, or if you need to get parts made by another party
Cheers
Fred W B
I am in exact agreement with Fred, there's no substitute for just starting with a few bits of tubing then mocking up an engine bay round your
engine/gearbox unit, the pickup points will start to give you some locations as well as the driveshafts etc.
Cheers
Joe T
Costin Roadster Project
Work in progress
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rpmagazine
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| posted on 10/8/08 at 02:57 AM |
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locally steel has gone up over 100% in the past 15 months, so there is no cheap supply. For this reason teh treated pine was used and stuck together
with a hot glue gun. Easy, quick and effective.
I do however totally agree that a mockup allows the placement of the chassis members to suit the needs, rather than having a chassis design that in
which you have suspension pickup points in the middle of tubes - though this is less critical if you simply want to cruise around in your car and have
no ambitions to seriously load up the chassis.
www.racemagazine.com.au
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Custardtart
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| posted on 14/8/08 at 12:59 PM |
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how about using a tub from a mk1 lotus elise?
They're only noodles
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