Sonic7
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| posted on 2/4/09 at 08:37 PM |
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I started this thread on the ‘Atomic’ a new car from MEV and it ends up being a somewhat heated discussion on the Structural integrity of the Rockets
top seat belt mounts.
I do wonder ‘cloudy’ if there is some ulterior motive, to your hostility towards MEV. Could it be a degree of jealousy of Stiggy’s chassis design
ability ? or are you after Stiggy’s source in order to check out your own chassis design ? Or is it that you just enjoy a good old fashioned
confrontation. Who knows and I for one really don’t care.
If its Stiggy’s wish to keep the information confidential, then I will respect his wishes. Personally I am not worried in the slightest at driving one
of his designs, as a customer I have seen and thumbed through my cars ‘the Sonic 7’ roll bar structural integrity report. No I am not a qualified
structural/stress engineer and neither do I feeling confident enough to challenge the engineers results, but I do hold a general engineering degree
gained in the aeronautical industry and like to think, that I would have picked up any bad vibrations during the cars selection, purchase and current
build to know if I was being sold a pup.
I for one have faith in Stiggy’s design.
Anyway do we like the ’Atomic’ ? or are we going to continue to bitch about the Rockets top seatbelt mounts. X
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cloudy
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| posted on 2/4/09 at 09:32 PM |
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Hostility? I've stated at several times I love the products! Hell if I didn't build my own, the rocket would be my weapon of choice,
I've even passed business their way with people looking for a similar car to R4.
I was only pointing out something that looked wrong to me! (and it turns out I wasn't the only one!) We're all on this forum to improve,
and I was hoping for a "yeah we realise it doesn't look right, but here's the report that shows otherwise"
Next time I shant bother.
www.warnercars.com
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kb58
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| posted on 2/4/09 at 10:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cloudy
I was only pointing out something that looked wrong to me! (and it turns out I wasn't the only one!)
Well that' pushed a button...
This all started with the claim that a secret engineer said it's a great design. It's no surprise the the non-existance creditials might
be tested, and the seatbelt bracket is a perfectly reasonable aspect to question.
Cloudy, you are right to be concerned about what you see. When claims of engineering greatness are posted but the source kept secret, it is perfectly
reasonable to examine it. Otherwise, we can claim anything we want and never have to back it up.
Did I mention that a famous race car engineer said my car was the best engineering he's ever seen? Of course he doesn't want everyone to
know, so I can't say more.
No - you're not the only one, and being accused of this or that is a cheap shot.
[Edited on 4/2/09 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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stig mills
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| posted on 3/4/09 at 09:12 AM |
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Please dont take the hump chaps. We all have fun with our cars. I love designing them and looking after my customers. I also enjoy the normal spirit
of helpfulness on the many forums.
For the record the mount in question has a fully welded seam all the way around. Not just one side as assumed below. The total length of the welds per
mount are actually 550mm.
I continue to develop new products for the kit car scene. I do it because I enjoy it. I have my work checked by professionals. Frankly the money is
c..p
but thats partly because I spend it on secret engineers! And of course because I continue to reinvest in product development at a phenomenal rate.
Like I said previously if a customer would like mods to our standard products then we always try to accommodate them.
The summer is just around the corner, enjoy this wonderful varied car game.
quote:
Originally posted by cloudy
An average human in a 30mph crash with a relatively immobile object such as a tree or wall produces about 2.4 tons of force on the seatbelt mounts.
Perhaps an oversimplification but divide that by 2 for a 4 point harness with the top mounts together - 1.2 tons
If that 6x50mm plate is just welded to one side of the tube then I can guarantee that force will arc it down to crush the tube and then tear off
around the HAZ. SVA requires the seat mounts to go right through the tube and weld both sides in this situation, so if this is the case it has a
fighting chance however the undercut weld at the front side suggests otherwise...
James
[Edited on 1/4/09 by cloudy]
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cloudy
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| posted on 3/4/09 at 10:13 AM |
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Hear Hear, lets put this to bed and get on with the DVLA bashing 
www.warnercars.com
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 3/4/09 at 10:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cloudy
Hear Hear, lets put this to bed and get on with the DVLA bashing
And the FIA!!
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cheapracer
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| posted on 5/4/09 at 08:58 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Sonic7
I do wonder ‘cloudy’ if there is some ulterior motive, to your hostility towards MEV. Could it be a degree of jealousy of Stiggy’s chassis design
ability ? or are you after Stiggy’s source in order to check out your own chassis design ? Or is it that you just enjoy a good old fashioned
confrontation. Who knows and I for one really don’t care.
Thats pretty poor effort Mate, the Guy has a genuine concern for the wellbeing of others and after all, this is a Forum, suggest you look at a
dictionary for the meaning of the word.
Now for my opinion -
Consider the Atom-ic, it's a deadly weapon and I mean it in a bad way, the rear protection is zero, nil, zilch. Imagine on the road someone
running into the back of you (and I mean that literally) or on a track day spinning backwards into the fence/tyre wall - you would be assured of being
crippled for life if you survived. If this really happened it would reflect badly on our whole scene.
It's butt ugly, it's an aerodynamic nightmare (it's got a small engine remember), the rollbar is 100% unsafe and could they have
tried harder for a single seater to put the main mass (the driver and engine) out as far to the sides as possible?
Excuse me to be so factually negative but I look at it from all angles and then see the Sonic and can't believe they came out the same factory
door. Fail, how can a company that makes the Sonic give up this? - What about a narrowed single seater Sonic MEV???
By the way, I am a BA of Mech Eng, a Oz RWC Inspector licence holder (your DVLA), CAMS Racing Scrutineer and I don't like the look of the
Rockets seatbelt mounts either. Simple experience over qualification tells me they aren't good enough - some of the forces (thats plural)
involved in car crashes are very severe and unexpected, not an area to 'just be over the line' with. Another thing, if people don't
like the look of it throwing Engineers reports in their faces rather than doing something about it is just going to make things worse because a lot of
us are inherently arrogant and think we know better, a simple (and marketing) fact of life.
It's coming....
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stig mills
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| posted on 6/4/09 at 08:47 AM |
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Thanx for your comments chaps.
If we look at tin top belt mounts by removing the plastic caps then you start to wonder how the tin can stand the required 25 kN
If you take a 33mm tube with a 3mm wall and weld it across the car then bolt 4 top harnesses to it then the calcs I posted earlier in this thread show
it to be inadequte. "Maximum feasible anchorage load = 6.79kN" BUT it looks fine and thousands of kits are made like this. Mills Extreme
Vehicles Ltd do not use this system. Ours are calculated to withstand the maximum force even if the driver may not.
Clearly however on investigation that system does not comply with IVA regulations or to directive 76/115 EEC.
The conclusion I have come to is the same as in 1976 when my company was Milsteam Ltd. I designed an industial vauum table that was very futuristic
with its single pedastool leg. It didnt sell because it didnt look strong enough so I put 4 legs on it, put the price up and sold 1000's. Paul
Smith had 1, he only had the Nottingham shop then.
So in order to gain more customer confidence I could have things checked by consulting engineers then add a few extra tubes.
They of course have all the facts and figures in front of them and carry out a full structural assessment b4 making a judement but a potential
customer may just say
"it dont look strong enough to me pal" and walk.
My advise to anyone thinking of buying a kit is to ask the manufacturer to show that he has carried out structural calcs. Dont reley on your own
judgement or anyone else's opinion unless they are qualified and have all the facts and figures b4 them.
Thanx again for everyones input, I will now decide where to put the extra bits.
Deposits are now being taken. The full kit price inc almost everything is £4500.
We will start production in Aug after our prototype has been fully developed and tested.
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pocket rocket
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| posted on 6/4/09 at 07:06 PM |
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quote:
from cheapracer
Now for my opinion -
Consider the Atom-ic, it's a deadly weapon and I mean it in a bad way, the rear protection is zero, nil, zilch. Imagine on the road someone
running into the back of you (and I mean that literally) or on a track day spinning backwards into the fence/tyre wall - you would be assured of being
crippled for life if you survived. If this really happened it would reflect badly on our whole scene.
Now for pocket rockets opinion -
the way i see its... its not a car with poor rear end protection... ist a motor bike that you can't fall off!!!!!
also by the look of it an 80kg driver on one side of the car will balance the bike engine that is on the other side.
For the record if i had finished the rocket by now as planned i would have placed an order for the new atomic last monday when i saw the pictures i
thinks its ace and really hope MEV take a demo to stoneleigh in may.
[Edited on 6/4/09 by pocket rocket]
Dam...iv consused my ability with my intentions!
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cheapracer
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| posted on 11/4/09 at 03:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pocket rocket
Now for pocket rockets opinion -
the way i see its... its not a car with poor rear end protection... its a motor bike that you can't fall off!!!!!
also by the look of it an 80kg driver on one side of the car will balance the bike engine that is on the other side.
[Edited on 6/4/09 by pocket rocket]
I suggest you hang around motorcycle shops on Saturday mornings and see the amount who come in for a chat on crutches and wearing slings ;-) (thats
the ones who aren't laid up or worse of course).
It's a fun setup but don't think for a second that hanging all that weight out to the sides, balanced or not, isn't a drawback
compared to keeping it all along the centerline.
By the way, I like MEV vehicles (and can assure you I promote the Sonic often) except for this one and IMO they should endeavour to make a single
seater Sonic, what a stunner that would be as well as a great trackday car base.
Anyway, good luck to them.
It's coming....
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pocket rocket
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| posted on 11/4/09 at 04:55 PM |
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a single seat sonic 7 would look ace
iv seen the injurys from bikes, 3 of my mates ride, all have had off's in the last 12 months, one races for susuki and had a high side at
mallory park end of last season... broke his arm and collar bone... he is not racing this year!
I see what your saying about a shunt from behind but i would still have one over a bike for some sunday afternoon fun (mostly because i don't
have my bike licence )
Dam...iv consused my ability with my intentions!
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GRRR
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| posted on 14/4/09 at 01:03 PM |
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Saw it at Detling yesterday and I think the Atomic looks fantastic; imagine if someone gave you some metal, a bike engine and a bucket seat and said
'build something cool' (for a sensible budgt), the Atomic is exactly what I'd want to end up with. I really want one!!
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cheapracer
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 12:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by GRRR
Saw it at Detling yesterday and I think the Atomic looks fantastic; imagine if someone gave you some metal, a bike engine and a bucket seat and said
'build something cool' (for a sensible budgt), the Atomic is exactly what I'd want to end up with. I really want one!!
C'mon Stig, your not fooling us
(Do I have to explain thats humour?)
It's coming....
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GRRR
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 08:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cheapracer
C'mon Stig, your not fooling us
(Do I have to explain thats humour?)
haha it does look that way doesn't it! but no I'm not on the payroll... although my gf works in PR if MEV fancy donating an Atomic for
marketing purposes :-)
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Sonic7
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| posted on 9/5/09 at 11:55 AM |
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New MEV Atomic Video
New MEV Atomic Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhdfiDZj9jU
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cloudy
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| posted on 9/5/09 at 12:06 PM |
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Looks a lot of fun 
Not to be a killjoy, but those look like public roads in some parts of the video, Donuting and slides on showplates shouldn't be posted on
youtube! Especially as it's manufacturer linked..
James
www.warnercars.com
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goodguydrew
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| posted on 25/5/09 at 08:20 PM |
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Wow. If I was starting over, that's exacly what I would build. Excellent. Where can I get plans?
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eddie99
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| posted on 5/6/09 at 05:19 PM |
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What i dont understand is, if you think there is a potential issue/problem, instead of making a fuss, do something about it. Contact MEV directly,
ring them or visit them, im sure directly they will talk to you and show you the stats....
It is the worst possible thing, to go on a forum and start complaining and heating a thread.
About the car, i think its excellent and love it and would have one if i had the money... I would also feel perfectly safe with anything MEV have
designed.
Ed
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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cheapracer
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| posted on 7/6/09 at 10:51 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by eddie99
What i dont understand is, if you think there is a potential issue/problem, instead of making a fuss, do something about it. Contact MEV directly,
ring them or visit them, im sure directly they will talk to you and show you the stats....
It is the worst possible thing, to go on a forum and start complaining and heating a thread.
About the car, i think its excellent and love it and would have one if i had the money... I would also feel perfectly safe with anything MEV have
designed.
Ed
This is a forum Buddy, a place for discussion and debate.
Goods are displayed, comments are given both positive and negative, whats hard to understand?
I don't care who designed it, MEV or Ferrari, I don't have to be shown a piece of paper written by a rocket scientist to know that one
tube and a piece of thin fibreglass between my back and other cars, guardrails, trees etc. isnt good enough for me and I'm quite entitled to
express my opinion in a public arena. If you feel that setup is ok for you great - you have the right to express that sentiment as well.
You will find here and other forums that I highly support and recommend the Sonic showing it has nothing to do with the brand, just the model.
It's coming....
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