coyoteboy
|
| posted on 24/11/10 at 12:25 AM |
|
|
Peugeot V6
Thinking of cars like the atom, midlana etc, there's a lot of engines available with fairly good power to weight ratios. One which doesn't
seem to be investigated here much is the peugeot ES9/J4 engine - 207hp N/A V6, all alloy (cast iron liners), shot-peened forged rods, piston oil
squirters.... Engine seems to hang ahead of the axle by some way, making it ideal for mid-mounting. Seen values of 110kg fully dressed bandied
around.
Anyone any experience with them? Whole cars can be had for sub 800 quid.
[Edited on 24/11/10 by coyoteboy]
|
|
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 24/11/10 at 12:34 AM |
|
|
Though I have just found a ref that says 223kg, that would be seriously chunky!
|
|
|
procomp
|
| posted on 24/11/10 at 12:38 AM |
|
|
Hi
Been there with a works Renault/Volvo/Peugeot touring car unit. Had it in one pf the very first wide bodied Westfields. Engine was not all it's
cracked up to be. Seem to remember some being fitted into UVA fugitives as an alternative to the usual Rover V8conversions.
 
Neweys renault V6 works engine installed into one of the first wide westfields.
Cheers Matt
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 24/11/10 at 01:13 AM |
|
|
Hi Matt, interested to hear your thoughts on it - you're talking about the PRV engine, not the ES9 engine - the ES9 is the latest incarnation of
it? What makes you say it's not all it's cracked up to be? It's got a nice flat torque curve and decent power, can you guestimate
the weight of the PRV engine and was it alu-blocked too or iron block?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRV_engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_ES_engine
[Edited on 24/11/10 by coyoteboy]
|
|
|
MikeRJ
|
| posted on 24/11/10 at 10:08 AM |
|
|
It won't be 110kg fully dressed by a long way, modern all alloy four pots would struggle to meet that.
|
|
|
Volvorsport
|
| posted on 24/11/10 at 12:42 PM |
|
|
volvo t5 .......
the prv , especially the later ones can be taken up to 3.3 litres , but its always had a bad reputation .
the narrow angle v6 , was just a peugeot , tis about 230hp in clio iirc , still tuning potential could be limited .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 24/11/10 at 12:53 PM |
|
|
quote:
It won't be 110kg fully dressed by a long way, modern all alloy four pots would struggle to meet that.
There's a few I4s below that but I know what you mean, it does seem unlikely. But so does 223kg. I'm asking about on some pug forums to
see if anyone has better info.
J
|
|
|
kb58
|
| posted on 24/11/10 at 05:34 PM |
|
|
Thanks for the mention of Midlana 
I can just about guarantee that the engine will weigh more that 110kg. For comparison purposes, here's what I wrote regarding the Honda 2.4
all-aluminum engine I'm using:
quote:
So what does a Honda K24A1 weigh? Engine + exhaust manifold + alternator + starter = 283 lbs. This does not include the flywheel or clutch (I have
neither), nor engine mounts. The 5-speed transmission weighs 87 lbs + 10 lbs for the intermediate shaft, for a total of 381 lbs. Figure 8 lbs for an
aluminum flywheel and maybe 15 lbs for the clutch, so the grand total is 403 lbs...
So the complete 4-cyl engine by itself is about 128kg... which isn't much different than your number, but a 6-cyl is surely going to be more
than that.
(You're finding out just like me that getting accurate engine weights via the Interweb is terrible uncertain unless it contains a picture of the
engine on a scale!)
[edit] I just realized my weights don't include the intake manifold... so there's another 5-7kg...
[Edited on 11/24/10 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 24/11/10 at 10:10 PM |
|
|
No problemmo - it's good inspiration for me.
I've had a good chat with a chap who breaks and ships 406 V6's and he assures me the fully dressed engine and box weigh in at just shy of
350kg, having shipped several of them and obviously weighed them for that reason.
wow. So clearly the 223 was the closer figure!
[Edited on 24/11/10 by coyoteboy]
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 24/11/10 at 10:59 PM |
|
|
Which is interesting as the Audi V8 engine alone, dressed but without fluids, is only 180kg!
|
|
|
kb58
|
| posted on 25/11/10 at 01:44 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
...I've had a good chat with a chap who breaks and ships 406 V6's and he assures me the fully dressed engine and box weigh in at just shy
of 350kg, having shipped several of them and obviously weighed them for that reason.
[Edited on 24/11/10 by coyoteboy]
Ack, that seems way too high. My brother's Super Stalker supercharged GM iron block 3.8 liter engine and gearbox weighs 259 kgs, and
that's complete ready-to-run. I suspect your engine's at least 20 - 30 kg lighter, probably more, but I guess the only way to know is to
weigh one.
[Edited on 11/25/10 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 25/11/10 at 09:55 AM |
|
|
I thought so too, but this is the best source I could possibly find - someone who actually weighs them to pay to have them shipped out to people?
It's an astounding amount of weight - 1/3 of a ton is vast, but there's not much else in a 406 coupe other than a bit of tin and interior
and they weigh in at nearly 1500kg.
|
|
|
kb58
|
| posted on 25/11/10 at 05:14 PM |
|
|
I have seen shipping weights that are "optimistically high." It's either to boost the price, rounding up to ensure shipping costs
aren't underestimated, or both. Another thing is that shipping weight typically includes a pallet, sometimes made of oak which can be pretty
heavy. A combination of all the above could be adding 50kg or so, but again, it's frustrating the lack of good data out there.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 25/11/10 at 09:17 PM |
|
|
I've asked him to double check if he can, be nice to know.
Either way a 3S-GTE or an Audi V8 seem to give far better power to weight ratio. For 3x the price... Thought I'd found a goodun for a minute!
|
|
|
cloudy
|
| posted on 9/12/10 at 11:32 AM |
|
|
Have one in my 406 coupe, lovely engine - suspect too heavy for lightweight cars!
James
|
|
|
owelly
|
| posted on 6/2/11 at 11:36 PM |
|
|
Just to resurrect this thread for a minute......
Did we ever get a weight for the ES9 engine? I have one sat in my garage bolted to a Type9 and it would be nice to know how heavy it is. I can just
about lift the engine on my own so it can't be too heavy!
ETA: I've just found a referance that suggests the ES9 is 473 pounds. Could that be right? 215kg?
[Edited on 6/2/11 by owelly]
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
|
|
|
MikeRJ
|
| posted on 7/2/11 at 01:22 AM |
|
|
Seems very heavy to me. The Rover KV6 is around 154kg fully dressed (compared to ~104kg for the 4 cylinder K series). An extra 60kg is a lot of
alloy...
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 8/2/11 at 03:27 PM |
|
|
Same way, I suppose, the BMW and Jag V8's are up in that general area too?
|
|
|
owelly
|
| posted on 25/6/11 at 09:09 AM |
|
|
Just to update.
The Pug ES9 weighs 180kg without exhaust manifolds, alternator, pas pump and a/c comp.
[Edited on 25/6/11 by owelly]
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 27/6/11 at 07:08 PM |
|
|
Ouch! But thanks for the confirmation!! That seems mighty heavy for a semi-bare engine!
quote:
I can just about lift the engine on my own so it can't be too heavy!
Remind me never to have an argument with you!
[Edited on 27/6/11 by coyoteboy]
|
|
|
