irvined
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| posted on 6/3/05 at 11:23 PM |
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Painting Ali (Confused)
Hello
Having appropriately bent all my ali into the right shape i want to paint them black,
Originally I had planned on getting it done by a sprayshop (I want it painted black) but from previous posts this looks like its going to cost 600 or
so which is far more than my budget can stretch to.
I've had a good search through the forums and am now completely confused about which is going to give me a good affordable and good solution.
So first question:
Is 600 really the asking price to spray the two side panels and the rear panel?
If so...
I've had some experience in spraying - i sprayed the chassis with por15 and I'm still alive and should be back to normal after the lung
transplant, and some skin grafts to cover up the over spray........ I'm certainly no Monet however.
I intend to spray the car outside, as the garage is very dirty and dusty, im thinking of putting up one of those cheap marquee things to stop any
birds using it as target practice.
Is there a particular type of paint which will be best suited to the colour and the ali which also happens to be fairly easy to apply?
I'm pretty clueless when it comes to paint, so my understanding is as follows:
I apply etch primer,
Then normal primer
then my colour
Is that right?
Can anybody point me in the direction of the painting bible? I have lots of newbie questions like how smooth etc etc...
Whats the rough cost for buying the paint to do it myself, and how much should I be buying?
Thanks in advance.
Cheers
David
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NS Dev
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 08:29 AM |
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Dave, are you and Mike still coming over for a brake line "meeting"?
If so I'll give you all the info then. You want to go to Nuneaton replacement Panels opposite Halfords in Nuneaton, they will give you all the
info and are very good on price. (don't take credit cards though or switch)
If you are using cellulose, around 1lt of etch primer with 1lt of activated thinners to go with it, 1 lt of build primer (you won't use all of
this though) and 1lt of paint, to do rear panel and side panels. You will also want a gallon (might as well get two so you have plenty for gunwash
etc) of thinners, I always get anti-bloom for everything as it's only quid more for gallon. Cost wise, etch primer, £9 a lt, activated
thinners £5 lt, thinners (anti bloom) £6 gallon, build primer £7 a lt, paint, depends on colour, etc but between £10 and £20 a lt. Also need panel
wipe, £6 per lt.
Basically you want one coat of etch, one or two coats of build primer, flat off with 1200-1500 grit wet and dry used wet. Clean and dry off with panel
wipe and apply several coats of paint, usually 3 minimum. Start with 50-60 % thinners and finish with 90% thinners for a glossy finish, whilst being
careful not to get runs (that's how I do it anyway, a pro doesn't use that much thinners but I can't seem to get a good finish
without!)
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irvined
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 11:21 AM |
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Nice one.
Its all starting to make sense. Thanks for the help - im convincing myself I want to spray it now.
Thanks
David
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Hellfire
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 12:42 PM |
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At the end of the day  don't we always pick fault with other people's work, usually ending up with "I bet i could have done better
than that"...
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DarrenW
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 12:54 PM |
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Before you rush off and paint it yourself - heres another option. i went to my local college with my Mk1 Golf. They were prepared to paint it for cost
of materials only (approx 350 all in) if i stripped the car first etc and rebuilt it after. They guaranteed at least a factory finish. If something
went wrong they would start again (their own cost). Only thing they wouldnt guarantee was time.
Surely £600 is over the top for 3 panels. I bet there are planty of body shops who will do it as a fill in job (ie prime when they are next using that
type of primer etc) for a lot less, especially as a cash job if you dont need paperwork. I know someone who would do a good job for 200 - 300 ish.
Maybe cheaper but hes up North.
Of course do it yourself but if you can get a good price you can get on with other jobs.
Hellfire - Good point well made. Best way to learn sometimes as long as we are grown up about it (as we usually are) In the automotive industry after
a job is done we do try and get together to list out the 'Lessons Learnt'. Its basically nit picking other peoples work (!!) but with the
flavour of preventing bad things happening again so that next time everything is better (root cause analysis and robust countermeasure etc). This is
something locostbuilders have been doing for ages with very good results  . The only difference is we dont tart it up with bullsh1t English
.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 03:52 PM |
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What's the deal with cellulose paint now? Nowhere local to be sells it anymore, allegedly due to some regulations that are being enforced.
Can you still get it?
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Liam
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 04:58 PM |
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If it's just the ali panels you're talking about, have you considered getting them anodized or powder coated? Durable and could be a low
cost solution as it isn't labour intensive. I cant imagine my local powder coater charging more than 50-100 to powder coat two side panels and
a rear panel in a colour and finish of my choice.
If painting though, and using a two part etch primer, make sure you get the right activator/thinner. For ali you need a phosphoric acid activator.
Well at least this is what my local paint place said when i told them i was doing ali (my gearbox), and they are a pretty decent and knowledgable
place.
Liam
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Liam
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 05:00 PM |
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Of course the above suggestions of anodizing and powder coating assume the panels aren't permanently fixed to the chassis yet!
Liam
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JonBowden
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 05:08 PM |
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Is there any non cellulose paint that does not kill you if you breathe it and is practical for amateur use?
I believe two pack contains arsenic.
Jon
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chriscook
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 06:20 PM |
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You could try Tallis on Nutts Lane in Hinckley - decent job and normally pretty cheap. They do quite a few sevens and other kit cars.
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soggy
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 06:23 PM |
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painting ali
hi my brother in law painted my car and is painting a fellow members dax, he could paint them for you a lot cheaper than £600 and done professionally
he is based in brackley not far down the road from you
if interested in a quote i could u2u his number?
if at first u dont succeed use a bigger hammer!
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 08:35 PM |
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If doing it yourself, you can use non isocyanate paint and get good results.
Use a 2 PART etch primer, this is not 2K in the normally accepted sence, no nasties (other that the standard solvent inhalation issues)
Use a 1K high build primer, which you guidecoat and rub down when dry to a smooth finish.
Use polyester colour (base) coat (almost all bodyshops use this these days)
Use a single pack clearcoat to seal the basecoat
Job done
Although not using any isocyanate products, these are still nasty if they get inside you. Use a good mask, preferably airfed if your air is clean
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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irvined
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 09:09 PM |
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Powdercoating
I had considered powder coating them - the panels are still removable, they are on, with a couple of fastners whilst i trim them to size etc.
I was a bit worried about the finish from powder coating, how well will it polish up? my understanding is its pretty chip/scratch resistant and wont
crack when i refit the panels etc.
Has anybody else done this?
Cheers.
David
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NS Dev
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 09:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
If doing it yourself, you can use non isocyanate paint and get good results.
Use a 2 PART etch primer, this is not 2K in the normally accepted sence, no nasties (other that the standard solvent inhalation issues)
Use a 1K high build primer, which you guidecoat and rub down when dry to a smooth finish.
Use polyester colour (base) coat (almost all bodyshops use this these days)
Use a single pack clearcoat to seal the basecoat
Job done
Although not using any isocyanate products, these are still nasty if they get inside you. Use a good mask, preferably airfed if your air is clean
Mark, what's your view on Celly? Can you still get it in your area? I can get it in Nuneaton but I see others saying they can't get it?
Whats the score on this?
I for one have never used 2 pack, isocyanate free or otherwise, might try it on the next project but as usual with "new things" its all
abit of a mystery to me and I have only just about mastered spraying cellulose!
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 09:57 PM |
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I can still get celly, but why bother when modern alternatives are available cheaper, butter and easier to use. If I had to paint at home, I would
still use clear over base with a single pack clearcoat. The base can be bought for as little as £11 per litre, and a 1 gallon tin of clear is £40. The
etch works out at £22 for the etch and activated thinner (1:1). You can miss out the high build if your prep is excellent, the 'bodyline'
etch I used is also a medium high build.
Celly if fine for solid colours, but not for metallics, clear over base is ideal for both. None of the products I have mentioned need to be baked, and
the etch can be used wet on wet (you throw the colour straight onto the dry etch without any further prep)
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Liam
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 11:24 PM |
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What's your opinion on 1K lacquer for a quality job? I've been told it's prone to peeling in a couple of years and 2K lacquer is
much better in that respect...
Liam
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Liam
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 11:30 PM |
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As for powder coat finish I cant really say. I went for a matt finish and dont intend to polish it. This is for wishbones mind you and not panels.
I could have specified a gloss finish and I remember seeing lots of smooth shiny looking jobs there when I went to collect which i assume were gloss.
I imagine you could apply normal car polish (autoglym etc) to a gloss powder finish??
Certainly tough as nails anyway and might be worth considering if the panels are removable. Of course if you do chip or scratch the powdered
panels, touching up might not be as easy as with paint.
Liam
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NS Dev
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| posted on 8/3/05 at 08:30 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
I can still get celly, but why bother when modern alternatives are available cheaper, butter and easier to use. If I had to paint at home, I would
still use clear over base with a single pack clearcoat. The base can be bought for as little as £11 per litre, and a 1 gallon tin of clear is £40. The
etch works out at £22 for the etch and activated thinner (1:1). You can miss out the high build if your prep is excellent, the 'bodyline'
etch I used is also a medium high build.
Celly if fine for solid colours, but not for metallics, clear over base is ideal for both. None of the products I have mentioned need to be baked, and
the etch can be used wet on wet (you throw the colour straight onto the dry etch without any further prep)
Right then Mark, a few more questions for you!
The "base coat" you refer to, is this the polyester paint you mentioned further up? Do I just ask for "polyester basecoat"?
How do I thin this stuff, presumably not with cellulose thinners?? What sort of thinners do I need?
The clearcoat, is that 1 pack laquer, like I use as a clearcoat on wheels etc?
Thanks for your help, think I will be trying this on my grasser in the near future, I just don't know a lot about paint/painting and I had only
ever heard of Cellulose and Isocyanate 2 pack paints, plus the old "synthetic" that we used on agricultural machinery that you used a
heated paint pressure pot to thin instead of using thinners!!!
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 8/3/05 at 07:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Liam
What's your opinion on 1K lacquer for a quality job? I've been told it's prone to peeling in a couple of years and 2K lacquer is
much better in that respect...
Liam
1K lacquer is not as good as 2K, but it isn't awful. On a car left outside all the time, the roof and bonnet tend to get UV degredation, the
clear tends to break up, I am sure you have all seen it - it looks 'crispy peel'. If your locost is garaged or covered when not in use,
there should be no problems for years.
NSDev - The basecoat (99% is polyester) is thinned with its own thinner, at 2:1. 1K thinner on bare ally will probably be a temporary measure (yearly
redo?), there is a 2K clear that is self etching, but I have never used it.
If you are painting your grasser a non metallic colour, synthetic may be a good option, they don't call it sticky for nothing. It does take a
while to dry - plenty of times for the flies to get stuck
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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NS Dev
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| posted on 8/3/05 at 09:13 PM |
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Cheers Mark, will investigate the polyester basecoat option next trip to the refinishing stockists, sounds easier than Celly!
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