gezer
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| posted on 16/7/07 at 03:05 PM |
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offical midi locost
Hi All,
I'm new on the site, i've been doing a lot of reading for the last couple of weeks, here and enjoyed what i've read, and got a hell
of a lot of info,
i'm planning on building something with my son and like the look of the R10T, but home built including chassis using the info i've found
here and the two books as mentioned (and hopefully a few measurements from a mojo or riot)
i agree there is a need for something like a locost midi,
and after reading all the posts on this i'll throw in my tuppence worth
i think the waters have got muddied a bit, i don't think you can attempt to design a generic midi that would suit everyone particularly one that
take's into account all the engines and gear trains that various members have suggested,
if RC and AG had designed their cars with that in mind they would still be at the drawing board stage, and nothing would have been published,
i would think from looking round the forum and the kit and self build world in general that half the home builds are here in the UK, for various
reasons including the relative ease that we have of registering them,
so design the car with something that is cheep and easy to get hold of here in our green and sceptic isle !!!!,
based on something like uncle henry's ford fiasco, small and cheap and able to use as much of the doner as possible,
go looking for parts for a sierra or escort for your FE car and you have to shovel fiestas out of the way to get the bits you want off the sierra or
rare as hens teeth escort,
if some one in another part of the world wants to change it for whatever he has thats available in his local scrap yard or widen it there are plenty
of guys on here that can give him all the advice and design input he needs to get it sorted,
I'm to old to live and to young to die ---- buggerit
I'm to old to live and to young to die --- buggerit
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FUORISERIE
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| posted on 16/7/07 at 04:08 PM |
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more info on the same subjetc:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=30627&page=4
italo
[Edited on 16/7/07 by FUORISERIE]
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kb58
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| posted on 16/7/07 at 05:27 PM |
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The trouble is, if you dictate what drivetrain to use, it alienates:
1. People who already have a (different) drivetrain.
2. People who can't afford the one you specify.
3. People who don't want to use your drivetrain.
4. People who live someplace where the specified drivetrain isn't available.
In my opinion, the above really cuts down on the potential market. Even Ron Champion left open other drivetrain choices. In my book on mid-engine car
design, I purposely don't specify what drivetrain to use for this very reason.
While I used a Honda drivetrain, I didn't, and don't, expect everyone else to use the same drivetrain I did. I leave drivetrain selection
up to them. It's a surprisingly small part of the overall project, and there's more important things to deal with, like suspension
design!
[Edited on 7/16/07 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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ERP
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| posted on 16/7/07 at 06:40 PM |
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I think any book documenting a build is interesting, but the concept of coming up with an "official midi locost" is frought with
problems.
I don't think that Ron Chapman ever intended his book to be a bible, just a reference as to how it could be done. Setting out to do much more
than document one possible solution is likely to fail.
I really enjoyed Kurts book, his focus on his decision process and the gotchas he encountered, makes the book a great read and a great insight into
building a car IMO. However I have occasionally found places I would have liked to see more detail, of his specific solution.
I think a book documenting in detail one possible mid-engined design is certainly interesting, following a single donor model would keep the cost
down. But it becoming "The mid-engined locost" is going to be more about how other people react to the book an car than the intents of the
author.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 16/7/07 at 06:44 PM |
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Simple choice of drive trains depends on what you want, accepting of course that the engine will be behind you.
Bike engine and fudged car diff to hold the sprocket.
Transverse engine, straight out of the donor and effectively look the steering wheels straight ahead
Longitudely engine, forget expensive hewland boxes, use an Audi box from old 5 cylinder cars up to V8's, and lock the steering wheels
Renault box, old 25's space V6's espaces etc, same applies.
Then just build a body around the engine & Transmission based upon the style you like.
Locost as you like (excepting the Bec version) as a donor should be around £200 all in, you just need to sort out some front end steering. V8 Audi is
plenty powerful enough, v6 renault or turbo 25 will also be very fast indeed.
You could go a harder way, I,m sticking a rover V8 on an Audi box.... the logic is simple, the gearbox was £65 and I had the engine !
Regards Mark
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gezer
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| posted on 16/7/07 at 06:52 PM |
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Hi KB,
I can see your point about leaving the drive train to whoever builds it,
i would think that the fwd escort would be similer to the fiesta, but what other alternative do you have for the average guy in the street who
does'nt have the technical knowledge, and who's not a motor mechanic,
i don't, but i'm willing to have a go at building using the the information and knowlege of whats allready out there,
i think i have a fair amount of common sense (dont answer that !!!!) (although my son and a few others might disagree)
i have enough to pick up whats needed to make a start from this forum
there are so many diffrent combinations of FWD trains and attachment points but
you have to start somewhere,
but do you design it for the masses or the few ???
i would guess that the majority of people who buy the book want it down to the last nut and bolt otherwise most won't even attempt it,
i'm not talking about books dealing with design in general, such as your own,
even the locost book as far as i remember only mentions specifically using just the ford engines that are common with a few proviso's about the
diffrences,
he did'nt put in reams of material about what needed to be altered to fit honda toyota vauxall rover and all the other transplants that have
been used, that was left to those with the skills and knowledge to do it,
the majority are just following on using the increasing information left by those who started building earlier, and because they all used an inline
drive train also made changes easier,
i know you have the training and skill to sort out the engine mounts rear suspension etc that makes you among the few,
(which you are because i've read your posts) and there are a quite a few others on here the same, but they are still outnumbered by newbies who
have not discovered this site, can't weld have never cut a piece of tube in their life, but would love to have a go at building their own,
perhaps on a forum like this a data base in the form of a 3D view of mounting points and changes to the basic tube area's and engine bay design
could be built up allowing those who build later to use an alternative,
I'm to old to live and to young to die --- buggerit
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gezer
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| posted on 16/7/07 at 07:20 PM |
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Hi all
I should have chosen a better subject heading, i put it in as a follow up to an existing thread,
i've just read that Andy Gibbs book has sold 10,000 copies and is now in it's second printing, so the interest is there,
how many are being built, but how many are put off building and why,?
I'm to old to live and to young to die --- buggerit
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Alan B
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| posted on 17/7/07 at 04:27 PM |
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Gezer...another Lancashire lad here....
I think the main problem with the "official" kind of concept is getting people to agree..most of us on here, especially in this section
are doing our own thing because we can and choose to...
The idea of a standardised midi is a good one, but the only way I see forward is by someone actually doing it..writing the book, selling the parts and
so on...until then we'll all kick ideas around share info., but ultimately go our own way.
Alan
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gezer
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| posted on 17/7/07 at 09:06 PM |
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Hi Alan,
hell a lanky in florida, i bet they still don't know what to make of you 
I should really have put my post on the end of the original thread, instead of starting a new one,
it was everyone talking about a lowcost midi but as you say doing their own thing that made me post,
i was thinking of a midi in the same vein as the locost that has spured a lot of people into building their own,
you only need to look back over the last ten years to see the impact the book has had,
i hope your enjoying the weather over there --- me i'm growing webbed feet,
john
I'm to old to live and to young to die --- buggerit
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