the dave
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 09:34 PM |
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Zetec on Bike Thottle Bodies
I am currently running a 2 ltr Zetec on twin 45 webers with an alpha ECU.
Anything below 2200 revs is useless and when i try to pull away the car splutters and tries to stall.
I have had it all set up at a RR but fear that the carbs will either not stay in tune, or my engine just doesn't like them.
For this reason i am thinking of going down the fuel injection route and using an ECU that can be remapped.
I noticed some people use bike throttle bodies, just like some people use bike carbs...is there are advantage/disadvantages over using, for example,
jenvey throttle bodies?
If i decided to change to a bike throttle body setup, does anyone have an idea of the cost. I know i would need a manifold and a ecu + loom, and have
been looking at Omex/Emerald or even a megasquirt.
Any advice would be appriciated
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mark-wiring
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 09:49 PM |
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Cost is always a big issue with this idea.
You could go the whole hog and have an Emerald and a set of Jenvey's defo the most expensive route and at a ruff guess you would be looking
aroud £1500 ish prob more if you add the cost of the tuning (up side here is you will have Dave Walker map it for you).
My Megasquirt setup with a set of GSXR 750tb's cost me around £750 but i have yet to fit it to any thing even tho i have a zetec escort, have
fitted and tested the megasquirt but thats as far as i got.
So its really up to you on how much you wanna spend
http://www.v10viento.co.uk
Have to recommend
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/
For all Megasquirt needs
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the dave
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 09:55 PM |
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I found out the emerald do a kit for around £1600 for the ecu and TB's
If i went injection i would be able to sell the webcon alpha kit, or the bit separately which ever is better for...something, i don't know what
they would be worth.
Emerald vs Megasquirt.....which is better, e.g. easier to set up, allow for greater versatility/performance. I realise that the MS would be around 1/2
the price.
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mark-wiring
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 10:05 PM |
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Yes MS is defo the cheeper option but having used both i know which one i would have if i had the money and it wouldn't be the MS lol
I found the software for the emerald easyer to use and more user friendly than the MS but that was just me others may have diff ideas.
Dont forget you wont need to buy a full kit as you already have a manifold for the jenvey tb's as there the same bolt pattern as
dcoe's.
I would love to see a set of roller barrell tb's on something as i think there the nuts as you have no restriction on full throttle as they dont
have a buterfly but there gonna cost a small fortune lol
http://www.v10viento.co.uk
Have to recommend
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/
For all Megasquirt needs
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Mal
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 10:28 PM |
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A Cheaper OPTION
You could buy a Megajolt from Ray Ward, on this site, for around £90 and run it with your 45 DCOE's. The Megajolt would allow you to do your own
tuning, without having to go to a Weber agent.
Whilst carburettors will not give as good a fuel economy as injection, or be as fine tunable you should be able to get your present system running
right.
Mal
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 10:50 PM |
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You'll probably find it's actually the fueling that is off, not the ignition. DCOEs are a bastard to get running right the first time and
then keep them in check. Almost as bad as SUs.
Sounds like you had a dick for a tuner?
Also, depends on what your goals are, and how thick your wallet is. The Alpha kit will sell on OK and leave you with a few quid to play with.
MS is OK if you can build it yourself, or know someone who can build it for you is gonna see you a long way; spending £350 on a 'pre
built' one from a 'specialist' (no names, no names) is gonna put you into the relms of an Emerald/DTA before you know it.
£500 for an MS/GSXR setup seems to be a figure I see regularly from those that know one end of a spanner from the other. Quite a bit different to
£1600 for an off the shelf kit, so it all goes back to how thick the old bill fold is 
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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stevebubs
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 11:18 PM |
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Cost me about £300 for my EFi setup, but I already had the ECU.
£100 of that money was buying a DCOE manifold - something you already have...
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the dave
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| posted on 20/7/07 at 05:54 AM |
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Thing is Omex are based about 2 miles from me. I think it would be rude to not consider them, even with a set of Bike TB's.
Not sure i fancy the hassle of continuously tuning the webers just to make them run right, that is why i am interested in injection.( plus the webers
seem to drink the fuel)
Do you reckon i could get some suitable TB's and extras from a bike and an omex or emerald ECU working for about £1k? Most of that would come
from the selling of what i have now
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Danozeman
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| posted on 20/7/07 at 06:07 AM |
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Your carbs are no way set right. Take them to someone who knows what theyr doing with them,. Once theyr set up correctly thats it.
You could get it running better just with a set of bike carbs and the ign u have for alot less money if u want to change.
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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the dave
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| posted on 20/7/07 at 06:15 AM |
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Hmm, well.
I plan to put cams in sometime soon so i would need to change my ignition for that. This is why i started thinking about injection because i
didn't see the point of selling my carbs to put more carbs on.
Regardless of the ECU, what differences would i see between bike carbs and bike TB's for ecample....just economy? Or could i get a smoother
drive or more power from the injection.
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Browser
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| posted on 20/7/07 at 09:15 AM |
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I'd concur with the other's who've said your tuner doesn't know what they're doing. I know carbs are far more of a
compromise than a decent FI setup but they should pull below 2200rpm! I presume the basics are sound i.e. throttle linkage correctly set, butterflies
synchronised, all that mallarkey. From reading Dave Walkers' articles in Cars And Car Conversions and now Practical Performance Car, a lot of of
the problems he has to sort out with a rolling road session, "the car won't run right, must need setting up", are related to basic
problems with the nuts and bolts.
You could try taking it to Mr Walker if you don't mind travelling?
On the other hand, if you are already leaning the way of fuel injection, go for it!
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the dave
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| posted on 20/7/07 at 12:00 PM |
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One driving point for change is the fact i'd like new cams soon, and that would require a new ECU. Because the alpha is not mappable by anyone
but approved dealers it is not something i could sell on. Therefore i was thinking of changing enough to allow me to sell the webcon kit (ecu weber
45's etc) to part fund the change.
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the dave
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| posted on 21/7/07 at 08:51 AM |
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As far as bike throttle bodies are concerned, alot of people seem to use the GSXR 1000's. Is there any reason for this?
What about others such as GSXR 750's, R1's?
Is there a particular dimension/specification that makes one better than the other?
Also, i spoke to bogg brothers who quoted me £180 for a zetec for bike TB manifold. Is this about right, or are there alternative places to go to?
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 21/7/07 at 09:10 AM |
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The earlier GSXR bodies are good because they are individual and can be re-spaced to suit your intake ports. The 750s and 100os are the same. I wish
I'd gone for the 600s instead as the 750/1000 are somewhat too big for a 2l pinto and are not as drivable as the 600s would be.
[Edited on 21/7/07 by matt_claydon]
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 21/7/07 at 10:31 AM |
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600s are good for ~180bhp.
Matt, do you a PX for your 750s?
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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TangoMan
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| posted on 21/7/07 at 04:52 PM |
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I went for GSXR750 TB's and MS feeding off an LC1 wideband.
Works a treat. GSXR600 TB's would be a little better low down but be aware that they also have smaller injectors which may not be big enough for
your fuelling.
TB's £50, Manifold home made for £35 MS was around £250 LC1 was around £120.
EFI is soo much better than carbs as it will give better economy and better power.
ooops, TB's were actually £75.00
[Edited on 23/7/07 by TangoMan]
Summer's here!!!!
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the dave
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| posted on 21/7/07 at 09:49 PM |
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Hmm, homemade manifold, now there is something i doubt i could do.
Got a lot for your money there though.
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TangoMan
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| posted on 23/7/07 at 09:15 PM |
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Manifold is easy. Buy a flange from MNR for small money. Speak to me nicely and I will let you have some ally tube of the correct diameter.
Cut four bits of tube and crush on end of each in a vice to a nice oval. Cut them at an angle to leave the tubes pointing uphill from the flange.
Tidy and balance with files/angle grinder etc. to get them all the same and then take them to a friendly TIG welder to stick the bits together.
Finally, finish off the internal joins with a die grinder or burr in a drill.
Easy Peasy!!!!! 
Now try making a tubular exhaust manifold from stainless bends. That really was a b'stard....
It took longer than the rest of the engine install put together. But it does fit like it was made for the job and cost me less than £100 and the end
of a thumb
Summer's here!!!!
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