britishtrident
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| posted on 6/12/07 at 07:23 PM |
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McLaren v Renault FIA decision --- fish smells
Renault have been found quilty of having McLaren IP but not quilty of using it.
No penalty not even a warning !
This is inspite of having 750+ pages of MacLaren documents on their server plus 18 CAD files and at least 8 out 13 engineers admitted to having
access to McLaren data.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 6/12/07 at 07:26 PM |
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"Renault's actions in admitting the offence also counted in their favour. "
errrrr - yeah right. Flavio went running straight to Max didnt he to let them know!!!!
Absolutely stinks!!!
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russbost
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| posted on 6/12/07 at 07:27 PM |
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 6/12/07 at 07:35 PM |
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Time for Ron to rell them all to run to f**k
Where OH where is the justice in all that??????????????
So if it's not the having others information that the fine/ban Mclaren got then it MUST be the colour issue
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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billynomates
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| posted on 6/12/07 at 07:59 PM |
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Shame the breakaway series never took off. Don't think I'm alone in saying that the 2 men who seem to be in control of Formula 1 seem to
be more interested in their own ego's, rather than the sport.
Mosley talks absolute cack ALL the time, and Bernie Ecclestone should have retired about 40 years ago. He actually is the epitome of small mans
syndrome.
(Apologies to all short blokes who don't carry a bag of chips on their shoulders).
I just hope somebody builds a car for next year that beats Ferrari so comprehensively, no amount of doctoring the rules will enable them to win either
championship.
Better still, lets get Kimi or Massa in the Liana on a greasy wet track and really see who the best driver is.
Right, better go and hide under my bed in case the mafia come round.
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 6/12/07 at 08:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by billynomates
Better still, lets get Kimi or Massa in the Liana on a greasy wet track and really see who the best driver is.
Sounds good 
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 6/12/07 at 08:05 PM |
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hi,
first off I am not defending the desision.
having said that mclaren is origonaly get off with no punishment. it was only when it was showen that mclaren where using the data that the punisment
was given.
having said all that it does smell
blake
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locogeoff
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| posted on 6/12/07 at 08:08 PM |
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Maybee its because they didn't lie about being cheats!
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 6/12/07 at 08:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by locogeoff
Maybee its because they didn't lie about being cheats!
like I say im not defending the desision however at the first hearing I think its safe to say that mclaren did lie about using the data. if you read
through all the transcripts you will see that ther is refrence to use of the ferrari data befor the 1st hearing.
personaly I beleave that if you are going to punish one team like that it sets a precedent and all other should be punished in the same way.
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locogeoff
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| posted on 6/12/07 at 08:20 PM |
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talking about fishy....
Floppy discs in the high tech world of F1, if he was trying to be discrete why didn'y he dump the drawings on to punch cards 
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britishtrident
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| posted on 6/12/07 at 08:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by locogeoff
Maybee its because they didn't lie about being cheats!
The cases are different if anything Renaults offence is worse in that the data was put on the Renault server and was seen by a substantial proportion
of Renaults engineers who had either access to the files or were given printed copies.
Flavio knew this was going on at the same time as he was making statements in the press aimed squarely at Ron Denis that any team who posessed another
teams IP should be thrown out.
In contrast nobody found any evidence that Ferrari data Stepney passed to McLaren was decemeninated throughout the team other than fairly minor stuff
passing between De la Rossa and Coughlan and eventually Alonso.
If there had been Alonso would have known about and blackmailled Ron Dennis with it.
Further more Nigel (not to be trusted) Stepney has alleged that he was passing MacLaren race strategy data supplied by (not to be trusted) Coughlan
back to Ferrari and to date the FIA have made not attempt to look into this. Personally my gut instinct tells me this just might be true as Stepney
was trying to claw back his imperium within Ferrari.
[Edited on 6/12/07 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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locogeoff
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| posted on 6/12/07 at 09:05 PM |
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending either the FIA or Renault, but as I've said before on another thread that I believe the
severity of the punishment given to McLaren was due to the fact that they categorically stated that no use was made of the information they received,
whereas in fact there had been use made of the info, albeit as British Trident states by small numbers of staff, and as I've discussed on
another thread that the only advantage they may have obtained was knowledge of the Ferrari adaptive braking system IIRC allowing faster in house
development.
I make the direct comparison between being caught speeding 3 points £60 fine or whatever and being caught with anti photograph number plates in which
case you get the boot firmly planted up the bahooky regardless of whether you were speding or not.
The situation Renault have been facing is similar to the original case where McLaren where found guilty of being in posession of Ferrari IP but
didn't get penalised.
All in all I wish this whole debacle could be finished and things could start clean sheet next year, I do hope that no Ferrari IP is found on the
McLaren because I'm begining to get tired of the McLaren faeces doesn't smell attitude.
F1 is a multi million dollar business driven by lawers, if Mclarens lawers could see a chink in the FIAs decision they would have them in front of a
business court quicker than you can say Mosely is the son of a facist and Briatore is a fat ugly playboy
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ecosse
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| posted on 6/12/07 at 10:04 PM |
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Shocking decision, if not entirely surprising, Max and the FIA have obviously decided that they have the power to do whatever they want, whenever they
want, to whomever they want (so long as the "who" is McLaren of course)
Prediction time:
The FIA find McLaren guilty of using Ferrari intelectual property on their 2008 car, specifically, McLarens new car has 4 wheels, exactly the same
amount as Ferrari's design drawings had last year, obviously directly copied from the information McLaren illegally recieved from Mr Stepney.
As a result of this discovery McLaren are thrown out of the 2008 championship and fined 1 billion dollars for bringing the sport into disrepute!
Cheers
Alex
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u401768
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| posted on 7/12/07 at 09:35 AM |
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I would think when the FIA transcript comes out later today, that most of it will centre around McLaren getting the fuel window info etc, which is a
competitive advantage, of knowing the oppositions game plan before you get to the game...plus the other odd thing after reading the details on
Ferraris floor – it had been in use for 4 years, and there were 5 teams in total who were hit by the rule clarification – including McLaren so I think
there must be more to that as well. Just we don’t get to know about it all…
[Edited on 7/12/07 by u401768]
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jono_misfit
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| posted on 7/12/07 at 11:09 AM |
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Im sure there is more than meets the eye to both these cases, but the FIA must give a very good brieff on exactly why the punishment isnt similar for
both teams.
If it doesnt it has just cost itself what little credability it has to many casual fans.
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u401768
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| posted on 7/12/07 at 01:19 PM |
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its looks to revolve around 'live data' - but as before the FIA slap them if anything else comes up:-
8.8. The McLaren confidential information brought to Renault was in the context of an F1 engineer changing teams. It was not ‘live’ information in the
sense that there is no evidence of a flow of current information between competing teams. After leaving McLaren, Mackereth had no further access to
current or updated McLaren information. Nor is there any evidence that Renault encouraged Mackereth in any way to bring the confidential information
from McLaren.
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