kikiturbo
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 02:40 AM |
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Naked single seater BEC middy
hi,
after much thought, reading, planning, buying, and fiddling around... here is the first "final" drawing of my future car... hopefully...
it all started with a 2006 GSXR 1000 engine, from a crashed bike, and an idea... a middy, similar to FSAE cars, but bigger, and suited to fast road
driving, with minimal bodywork, to give more sensation of driving... kind of like a 4 wheel superbike...
it all started as a rough sketch, and rough FEA analysis on the torsional stiffness..
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/turbolimac/x1000/th_x1000-1.jpg[/
IMG]
then came the wooden model (thanks Kurt and his book for the idea.. )
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/turbolimac/x1000/th_x1000-2.jpg[/
IMG]
then, the design of the uprights, and suspension geometry..
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/turbolimac/x1000/th_rearsus.jpg[/
IMG]
before that was finalised, I had to get hold of the wheels (13 inch CXR's) brakes and wheel bearings, to finalize the upright design
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/turbolimac/crap/th__MG_0613.jpg[/
IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/turbolimac/crap/th__MG_0611.jpg[/
IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/turbolimac/crap/th__MG_0607.jpg[/
IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/turbolimac/crap/th__MG_0606.jpg[/
IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/turbolimac/crap/th__MG_0601.jpg[/
IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/turbolimac/crap/th__MG_0600.jpg[/
IMG]
I took some measurements of the cockpit design I need... and this is the first iteration of the final design...
the frame is designed to be built from 40x1.5, 30x1.5 and 20x1.5 mm seamless tubing.. (I have 4130 for the purpose..)
I am playing around with the usage of tubes in the frame... I am currently at 53 kg. for the frame, and about 10500 Nm/deg for the stiffness... Both
are too much IMHO, so I will lighten it up a bit..
While this project is not Locost at all.. I also built some locost tools.. like hydraulic press and a home made tubing notcher.. I'll finish
those in a couple of days and post some pics in the tools section..
cheers
vlado
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Benonymous
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 03:59 AM |
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Looking good
Your project is looking really good. I like the concept too, 4-wheeled superbike 
The only query I have are these two crossovers here on the top of the chassis. I think they could be simple triangulations instead of having the tiny
crossed over part. The outcome structurally would be almost the same.
I know you're going to reduce the tubes somewhat but I just thought I'd throw in my 2-cents worth.
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Mave
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 07:46 AM |
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First of all, that looks like a good start! Thorough approach.
My two pence; for a "naked" style car, I think a "curved tubing" approach (Ariel Atom) looks better, as the curved tubes
really give the car a kind of "shape", while straight tubes will make it look "unfinished". Structuraly, the straight tubes
are an advantage of course, but with the dimensions of tubing you're intending to use, you should have enough margins.
Secondly; are you intending the "upright" seating position as used in Sevens? Or the more lying-down position of a typical single seater?
I think the latter would look nicer, but can imagine choosing for the more upright position.
As for shape; I'd love to do something similar as you're doing. But my design would probably have to look a bit like the sub3wheeler (but
then with 4 wheels). Just because it doesn't look like a roadgoing formula 1 car. For me personally, that would be a benefit.
But whatever route you choose; I'm interested in following you're progress, so please make sure to keep us up to date.
Marcel
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kikiturbo
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 08:30 AM |
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benonymous... you are right of course.. I will remove the crossover, or even make the section where they meet wider so that they form more of a
cross... first solution is more likely as it is too stiff at the moment..
mave... I agree about the curved tubing but.. I like the simplicity and the structural benefits of straight tubing.. and also, there is no one local
that I would trust with bending.. I am having problems finding someone to bend the rollover hoop..
I like your car BTW, I also thought about a "vertical" design for my nose cone, as I will have some minimal bodywork on the front of
course...
the seating position will be very low.. I will put the "digital person" in the solidworks model asap...
[Edited on 30/1/08 by kikiturbo]
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nitram38
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 09:27 AM |
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I have always liked "racing car" designs as you probably can tell by my F1-2 build.
I am also building an "atomesque" project using curved tubes.
It did take me a long time to find a decent (plus reasonable cost) company near me who could do what I want, but the effort was worth it as it
"makes" the car.
 
Description
 
Description
[img][/img]
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Wolf HR
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 10:41 AM |
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It's looking nice, Kikiturbo, but if I may make a small suggestion. Why not make provisions to carry a passenger aboard? Not a two seater, but a
tandem of a sort- which would mean you'd have to widen the chassis only a bit (if at all), and just lengthen it slightly... Again, not
conventional tandem, but rather like motorbike- with the driver reclining on the passenger.
At least, you'd be able to transport the opposite sex (and if you put passenger seat high enough, you'll be able to use their head to
protect rolll bar in case of rolling the car :p).
Anyways, it's looking good and I'm looking forward to seeing your progress on it.
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nitram38
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 10:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Wolf HR
It's looking nice, Kikiturbo, but if I may make a small suggestion. Why not make provisions to carry a passenger aboard? Not a two seater, but a
tandem of a sort- which would mean you'd have to widen the chassis only a bit (if at all), and just lengthen it slightly... Again, not
conventional tandem, but rather like motorbike- with the driver reclining on the passenger.
At least, you'd be able to transport the opposite sex (and if you put passenger seat high enough, you'll be able to use their head to
protect rolll bar in case of rolling the car :p).
Anyways, it's looking good and I'm looking forward to seeing your progress on it.
Do you mean like this?
 
Description
The passenger space is under the removeable airbox.
 
Description
New Front end changed and waiting for return from painters:
 
Description
[Edited on 30/1/2008 by nitram38]
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Wolf HR
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 11:42 AM |
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Nitram- grat minds think alike...  (and spot on regarding the colour of the front engined F1 car-
Arrows recent front engined F1 design, and they attempted it also in '79 )
But I had a tad more 'comfy' layout in mind (call me an old perv), and pardon the quick sketch in ManneQuinPRO):
 
Description
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kikiturbo
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 01:05 PM |
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with all due respect to anyone building or driving a self built twin seater, and I am a great fan of the LCC Rocket, I do not want a passenger, for a
couple of reasons:
1. for 99.9% of time I drife for fun, I drive alone, and I really do not like having a passenger.
2. In a BEC car, it is all about power/weight... adding 90-100 kg more transforms a ultra fast BEC supercar into a fast hatch... if you catch my
drift.. so the passenger in question will not feel the full on effect.. although I would probably find that a BEC locost iis more than fast enough
even with two people on board..
3. leaving room for a passenger brings a new set of compromises I really do not want...
4. my wife does not enjoy my driving... and my delta integrale will be fast enough to impress other ladies..
as I said, I really want a single seater.. no compromises...
just watched a test of the new LCC rocket on autocar website.. unbelivably cool..
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nitram38
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 01:28 PM |
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If you want a single seater why not buy the MK Sprint-R?
A complete chassis/body package is about 5K.
My car cost me 8k in materials.
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nitram38
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 01:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Wolf HR
Nitram- grat minds think alike... (and spot on regarding the colour of the front engined F1 car-
Arrows recent front engined F1 design, and they attempted it also in '79 )
But I had a tad more 'comfy' layout in mind (call me an old perv), and pardon the quick sketch in ManneQuinPRO):
Description
Wolf HR, my car is rear engined and my passenger does sit behind me in the way you show in your picture.
As for comfort, unless you fit armchairs, this sort of car will never be "comfy"
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kikiturbo
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 09:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
If you want a single seater why not buy the MK Sprint-R?
A complete chassis/body package is about 5K.
My car cost me 8k in materials.
building it is half the fun...
anyways, I was well into the planning before I laid my eyes on a sprint-R....
the whole thing is more of a challenge...
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kikiturbo
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 09:34 PM |
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nitram... are you planning some sort of a front crash structure, or will it be just the glassfibre nose cone with a rad in it?
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nitram38
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 10:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kikiturbo
nitram... are you planning some sort of a front crash structure, or will it be just the glassfibre nose cone with a rad in it?
Which car are you talking about?
The Motaleira, my current build has both nose and wheel line infront of my feet. Same goes for the F1-2.
The motaleira also has a space behind the rad before the cockpit.
Rad goes on the very front of this structure and the pedals are another 10" behind the steering rack.
 
Description
 
Description
[Edited on 30/1/2008 by nitram38]
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kikiturbo
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 10:12 PM |
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ok,
I was looking at the spec for FSAE cars and they require an energy absorbtion structure in front.. I'll probably go for just a glassfibre
nosecone, as my rad will be next to the engine, in a sidepod..
[Edited on 30/1/08 by kikiturbo]
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Wolf HR
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| posted on 30/1/08 at 11:55 PM |
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If you want energy absorption structure in front, it might be well to remember Wartburg designed their
'mandolin shaped' tubular chassis that AFAIK absorbed
frontal impacts well and was easier to repair than most... Maybe you could come up with something in front of main chassis structure along those lines
(a single tube open at the front, 'bulbous' and curved)- sort of like a spring. Just my 2c worth. HTH
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kikiturbo
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 08:26 AM |
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HA! didn't know about the mandolin shaped chasis... I was thinking more along the lines of the energy absorption porperties of glassfibre nose
cone, maybe with an aluminium honeycomb structure inside, like what FSAE cars use..
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Mave
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 11:24 AM |
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I didn't know the Wartburg chassis, but looking at the planview of the sub3wheeler, they might have known it.
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