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GAZ SHOCKS
donut - 24/10/02 at 10:41 AM

Has anyone got the part numbers or model numbers for the GAZ Shocks that MK put on the Indy?

Also what would be the Spax equivelent (model numbers too if poss)?

Cheers

Andy

mad-butcher - 25/10/02 at 05:33 PM

andy
the only numbers on mine are
130/090 B12 C-5 they are 13 inches between centres.
the guy that sells them is a mate of martins so just tell him what car its for.
my springs are 150 rear and 230 front but I think I might need to go to 320 as I have had to wind the adjuster up that much to get the ground clearance I can stand on the front and it don't even move.
regards
tony

bob - 25/10/02 at 06:14 PM

Mine are 325lb on the front and 175lb at back,its a lardy lump that pinto

donut - 25/10/02 at 06:31 PM

Cheers guy's

paulbeyer - 28/10/02 at 11:09 PM

How critical for suspension setup is it to have shocks with 13" centres? I think Nitrons have 12" centres but only cost £200 at the moment (on special offer), very tempting. They are height adjustable and can be supplied with whatever spring rate takes your fancy. I'm not clued up at all when it comes to suspension geometry but if the coilovers are adjustable for ride height then surely it doesn't matter if the shocks have 12" or 13" centres does it?
Any advice or help (in easy to understand terms please) would be appreciated.

bob - 29/10/02 at 07:20 PM

Paul

I was told that Nitrons would not fit on the indy,something to do top bracket cant remember exactly.

may only need bushing but not totally sure,best ask MK.

donut - 13/11/02 at 08:13 AM

Bob

This is from their web site regarding fitting:

"Please note the rear dampers mount onto an axle equipped with a double shear lower shock mounting bracket as drawn in the book. The single shear lower mounting pin mentioned in the book is not suitable for our damper kits as the rear shock will need to be a couple of inches longer. "

Looks like it's gotta be GAZ!

Andy

Squirrel - 13/11/02 at 09:25 AM

What about Zeemeride dampers for £180 for a set of 4, as advertised in Lolocost? Again, do not know whether they are suitable. Does anybody know ?

interestedparty - 13/11/02 at 12:04 PM

Anybody who want to get the right ride height by changing springs (which is of course the correct way) needs to know that springs have TWO characteristics, 1, the poundage and 2, the (unfitted length). The two need to be considered jointly. The poundage should be chosen to give the required handling and ride, and then the length can be selected to produce the required ride height.

Suppose, for instance, that you believe the existing springs are quite firm enough, but that the ride height is too low. All that is needed is to take the spring off, learn its poundage (should be written or stamped on it somewhere) then buy springs of the same poundage but which are longer. This is much better than winding up the spring platform as it will allow more suspension movement

JOhn

donut - 13/11/02 at 12:36 PM

I have been told that the Zeemarides are converted mini type and are a bit crap!

I'm going for Gaz....today!


Andy

Stu16v - 13/11/02 at 07:45 PM

quote:

Suppose, for instance, that you believe the existing springs are quite firm enough, but that the ride height is too low. All that is needed is to take the spring off, learn its poundage (should be written or stamped on it somewhere) then buy springs of the same poundage but which are longer. This is much better than winding up the spring platform as it will allow more suspension movement

I disagree on a couple of counts. Firstly, the amount of suspension movement is not dictated at all by the spring, but by the shocker and bump stop, unless the spring ends up coil bound, which is bad. Secondly, whereas you are right by mentioning that springs have two characteristics to consider, it is the fitted length that has greater impact to the overall result.
For example, if you have two springs, both rated at 200 pounds, but one is 6" and the other 10" in length. From their unfitted length, it will take 200 pounds of weight to compress them both one inch. But for the second inch, the natural rising rates of each spring differs, with the shorter one needing a lot more weight to compress it an equal distance. So in effect, by fitting longer springs with the same poundage, in reality you are actually fitting softer springs!
Best to use the adjusting collars IMO....

interestedparty - 13/11/02 at 08:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Stu16v
quote:

Suppose, for instance, that you believe the existing springs are quite firm enough, but that the ride height is too low. All that is needed is to take the spring off, learn its poundage (should be written or stamped on it somewhere) then buy springs of the same poundage but which are longer. This is much better than winding up the spring platform as it will allow more suspension movement

I disagree on a couple of counts. Firstly, the amount of suspension movement is not dictated at all by the spring, but by the shocker and bump stop, unless the spring ends up coil bound, which is bad. Secondly, whereas you are right by mentioning that springs have two characteristics to consider, it is the fitted length that has greater impact to the overall result.
For example, if you have two springs, both rated at 200 pounds, but one is 6" and the other 10" in length. From their unfitted length, it will take 200 pounds of weight to compress them both one inch. But for the second inch, the natural rising rates of each spring differs, with the shorter one needing a lot more weight to compress it an equal distance. So in effect, by fitting longer springs with the same poundage, in reality you are actually fitting softer springs!
Best to use the adjusting collars IMO....


I'm afraid your physics teacher won't be very happy when he reads this.

May I refer you first of all to Hooke's law, which states (approx) that the tension on a spring is directly proportional to its length. Until it becomes coil bound each inch will require the same poundage.

Secondly, of course the fitted length is what sets the ride height. Perhaps I didn't explain myself sufficiently clearly. Let me try this- the fitted length is derived from the unfitted length, the poundage of the spring and the weight of the car. Suppose (for example) we start with a car that weighs 500lb at the corner in question. The vertically fitted spring is a 100lb rate, and is 12 inches unfitted. Fitted length will then be 7 inches. I'm sorry if this doesn't feel right to you, but it is true.
My advice given earlier remains true, the ride height should be set by choosing the correct springs

John

donut - 13/11/02 at 09:05 PM

locodude - 13/11/02 at 09:19 PM

Hi Guys
Just as an aside, I know that Dave (Dampertech) had a visit from mr Filby of Which kit the other day (before visiting MK) and so there should be an article in the December issue I think. Don't know the content though.
p.s. It's easier for those of us who only live a few miles from Dampertech!

Stu16v - 13/11/02 at 10:02 PM

Interestedparty, you are spot on with the Hookes law bit. At that point, I am talking out of my arse.....
BUT,

quote:

Secondly, of course the fitted length is what sets the ride height. Perhaps I didn't explain myself sufficiently clearly. Let me try this- the fitted length is derived from the unfitted length, the poundage of the spring and the weight of the car. Suppose (for example) we start with a car that weighs 500lb at the corner in question. The vertically fitted spring is a 100lb rate, and is 12 inches unfitted. Fitted length will then be 7 inches. I'm sorry if this doesn't feel right to you, but it is true.

Why buy new springs if the existing ones will adjust to suit? As you say yourself (and I have to agree...)free length makes no difference. But neither does fitted length, if an 11 inch spring were fitted instead of a 12" as in your example, the spring platform would merely be 1" higher (6 inches fitted length). Wouldnt effect suspension travel one iota as long as it didnt go spring bound.
What does matter is making sure that on full extension the spring doesnt go slack in its fitting rings, and that equally it doesnt go coil bound on full compression. and if it will adjust to the right ride height, all well and good. But if you run out of adjustment, or the spring is not located on full extension, then you need to get new springs.

SteveF - 21/11/02 at 01:21 PM

Yet another thing to consider - as was touched on before are the uncompressed & fully comressed (spring bound) lengths of the spring - as when you consider that most 'sevens' are capable of abot 1g lateral acceleration during cornering - each corner may experience about twice its normal weight - so that means that (from the previous example) the 500lb corner will now be 1000lb, and on a 100lb spring will in theory compress it 10 inches - for a 12 inch 'uncompressed' length spring - this would be spring bound. From memory springs will compress to about 1/2 or 1/3 of their 'uncompressed' length before becoming bound. So - in this case a better choice of spring may be a 12 inch 200lb spring which would have a 'normal ride' length of 9.5 inch, and a 'cornering load' length of 7 inch - which would still allow for a bit more suspension movement mid corner. Also - assuming that the spring is at 45 deg to the vertical in the suspension geometry, then the loaded corner would dip by about 1 1/4 inch mid corner - minimising body roll.

Hope ethis makes sense

Steve