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More busa woes (fuel pump)

MikeFellows - 23/5/12 at 09:25 PM

having partly solved my clutch problem (well its working)

I hoped tonight was firing night.

after several attempts at starting I disconnected the fuel line to the fuel rail and tried again - no fuel from the hose

disconnected everything, checked all the wiring that I have extended, did continuity checks on all the cables and still no fuel.

then I directly connected the battery to the fuel pump - pumps spins and squirts fuel everywhere - so i know it works.

checked the fuel pump fuse and thats fine (changed it anyway)

I did however fix one problem during all this that could be related. when checking the connections for the extended wiring for the pump, I noticed a poor negative connection, after redoing the connection the fuel guage no longer reads full but empty (the tank is half full though) so something had changed

still wont spin the fuel pump

is the relay likely to have gone, if so how can i test, or should I just buy a new one?

what other tests can i do?

Thanks

Norton91 - 24/5/12 at 06:32 AM

Hi

I had the same problem had no spark or fuel it turned out to be the crank sensor connector had come apart so although every thing looked good the ecu did not know that the engine was turning therefore no fuel/spark. On a Gen 2 it is a black connector sprocket end.

Nigel

MikeFellows - 24/5/12 at 06:52 AM

cheers will give it a try tonight

cosmick - 24/5/12 at 07:43 PM

Mike.

When you turn the ignition on, the fuel pump should run for 2 seconds and then cut out until the crank turns with the starter. if you are not getting a fuel pump initially running then this could be an immobiliser issue. What ECU are you using i.e. is it an English engine or a US import. Does the ECU have a part number on it? Have you wired the car to take the immobiliser into consideration. PM me if you need to.

MikeFellows - 24/5/12 at 07:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by cosmick
Mike.

When you turn the ignition on, the fuel pump should run for 2 seconds and then cut out until the crank turns with the starter. if you are not getting a fuel pump initially running then this could be an immobiliser issue. What ECU are you using i.e. is it an English engine or a US import. Does the ECU have a part number on it? Have you wired the car to take the immobiliser into consideration. PM me if you need to.

im still using the original busa keys + immobiliser so I doubt its that

though the bike did have a alarm on it and i got left with all the wiring, im not sure its that though

thanks for the info on the fuel pump though, that save me turning it over and trying to tell if it is running - might have to give malc at yorkshire engines another call - he will hate me soon

thanks

cosmick - 24/5/12 at 08:00 PM

Are you using the Hayabusa speedo to see if there is any FI light?

MikeFellows - 24/5/12 at 10:06 PM

using the standard gen 2 dash

fi light comes on for a couple of seconds and then goes out when turning the key

the bike loom had a alarm fitted when it came, I believe i have removed all the wiring but potentially I havent, would the alarm just stop the fuel pump though?

the chec light is lit though, searching the interwebs now for how to put it in dealer mode to get the error codes

[Edited on 24/5/12 by MikeFellows]

cosmick - 25/5/12 at 12:32 PM

Chec light is the problem, with this on, you will have no spark or fuel pump. Chec means no power is going to the ecm so it is probably not wired completely at the moment. You have a U2U from me.

MikeFellows - 25/5/12 at 12:45 PM

got u2u thanks, will give you a call later if thats ok

my understanding was the chec light was just a engine management light and you use a switch on the SDS conenctor to enable service mode and read the fault codes?

MikeFellows - 27/5/12 at 07:27 PM

right had a good day messing around trying to get it started, ive made some progress but its still not firing

the initial chec light was fixed as the ecu had no power - this was caused by the alarm wiring - this is now fixed

now I have a flashing fi light, jumping the pins in the SDS plug gived me a C41 error, this appears to be fuel pump control system - not very helpful i know.

so now im further forward but stuck again

thanks

SJL - 27/5/12 at 08:03 PM

Are you using the original bike pump or is it an external one?

I will have a nose in my manual and see what the diagnostics say for C41.

OK if I recall yours is a gen 2 engine if its not disregard what I have written below

Looking at the circuit diagram there is a ignition feed from the switch to the fuel pump relay (red/blue wire) this is also fused.

They also have a side stand relay which is fused as well this then goes to the stop switch before reaching the fuel pump relay (orange/white wire).

I would say depending how much of the original loom you have used you have a few places to look at there.

1. Check all the fuses and make sure you have 12 volts present at the wires I mentioned above.

2. Check you have bypassed the engine stop switch.

3. Check you have bypassed the side stand interlock/switch

4. If that all checks out you could try bridging the fuel pump relay plug. Remove the relay and bridge a wire between the yellow/red and red/blue wires. You should get power to the pump then.

[Edited on 27/5/12 by SJL]

Norton91 - 27/5/12 at 08:46 PM

Mike,

C41 is fuel pump relay the exact code I have which turned out to be the crank connector. In researching on the net prior to finding the fault few found this related to the relay some found it to be a faulty ecu.

Poss no help just my experiance of 2 weeks of trying to fix mine.

Nigel

SJL - 27/5/12 at 08:52 PM

The other thing to check as well which I forgot to mention in my edited post was also the Tip Over Switch. I know some people mount them or hot glue them into their on (run position) but I removed mine. You need a resistor to bypass this as well.

Edit again as I keep forgetting stuff

C41 is the code you will see from the dash. If you have access to the proper Suzuki diagnostics you would see a more detailed code similar to OBD stuff on cars - C41 just tells you the pump has no power

[Edited on 27/5/12 by SJL]

MikeFellows - 27/5/12 at 11:09 PM

thanks for the help guys

to answer a few questions

its a 2009 gen 2 engine.

im using original in tank fuel pump - this works when powered directly

i have the tip over switch mounted with a cable tie to the chassis

ive got the bike switches at the moment for testing so i know its not kill switch etc.. - clutch switch is bridged for firing

ive joined the cables together on the side stand switch

i have a speedo healer installed but not setup yet

will try out the things you guys have mentioned tomorrow and let you know

thanks again

Norton91 - 28/5/12 at 06:31 PM

Mike,

Just to clarify c41 is no power to the fuel pump relay.

Remember when checking thing most are triggered by being earthed by the ecu.

If you get the two second fuel pump coming on and then turning off and not firing when you crank the engine then the logic I came too was a vital sensor was faulty or as in my case unplugged.

Nigel

MikeFellows - 29/5/12 at 06:26 PM

ok, I've done a bit more investigating

1. fuel pump does not prime for 2 seconds on turning on the ignition
2. spark plugs are firing
3. injectors are not firing, but i expect this to be related back to the fuel pump
4. tip over sensor is working - when the wrong way up, bike throws error 21 (off the top of my head) and clears when posistioned correctly
5. Side stand is working - cannot turn over when open and in gear (makes no difference in fuel pump)
6. checked all earths all ok
7. when grounding the yellow and red wire from the fuel pump relay (goes to the ecu) the fuel pump fires without any problems

with the above in mind, the only thing i can come back to is that the circuit that ground the fuel pump relay is buggered, though malc at yorkshire engine claims this is extremely rare

working my way through every check i can think of and the ones included in the diagnosis in the service manual

anyone else give me any ideas?