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Viento Stuff
GrumpyOne - 16/6/09 at 08:46 AM

Hi All
The Viento kit is ordered and I should have it by the end of July. I could have got it sooner but I am away working and that is when I return.
What else do I need, I have the donor car so the engine, gearbox, diff are covered as are the brakes etc. Is there anything else that I should be collecting now?
Also what points should I be watching out for, I am hoping Luego have sorted the crush tube issue before I get my kit, but is there anything else that might catch me unawares?
Thanks
Colin

jollygreengiant - 16/6/09 at 08:56 AM

Sierra front hubs/knuckles & Scorpio Granada 4 bolt rear hubs ( the later makes life much easier & Granda/scorpio front hubs/knuckles are too big).

If you can pull the entire wiring loom out of you donor without cutting then you have all the wiring you will need and all the right connectors, it will have all the correct grade of wires for each circuit & will just need thining out and you have a usable fuse box.

GrumpyOne - 16/6/09 at 10:24 AM

Thanks JGG

I didn't know that about the Scorpio front hubs, they do look huge though. I am sure Ben has a set of Sierra hubs I can buy from him.
Wondering if the Scorpio calipers will fit the Sierra hubs though?
The wiring loom in the Scorpio is a pain in the rump, it is one of those one wire does nine jobs and is prone to failure. There is a wiring loom included in the kit so I think I will start with that, keeping the Scorpio loom for connectors etc. And of course I will need to keep the engine loom. Fuse box is another weak point but there is also one in the kit.
Sorry for rambling on, just trying to get everything ready for day one.
Need to find out if the calipers fit a Sierra, I don't want Cosworth brakes at the rear and Sierra ones on the front.
Anything else I will need that comes to mind anyone, would be appreciated.

Cheers
Colin

wilkingj - 16/6/09 at 11:53 AM

Put at least Sierra 4x4 (260mm ) front discs and calipers on. Its a big car and needs some stopping power.

All sierra rear discs are std at 255mm (ish),
You would need Cosworth front hubs if you want the Cosworth brakes, they are different to the 4x4 and std ones.

I would not put drums on th rear of a Viento.

You could use the Focus ST170 discs (300mm), with extender brackets and sierra calipers. Its been done on here before.

Shop around, you will be amazed at how much you can save.

GrumpyOne - 16/6/09 at 01:29 PM

Hi

Thanks for the advice, I have a Scorpio Cosworth donor with all the calipers etc. I am presuming then that when I change the front hubs to Sierra ones unless I can get hold of Cosworth ones I wont be able to use the Scorpio calipers, which is a bit of a bummer as that means I will have to down size the rears as well.
Wonder if I could make the Scorpio calipers fit the Sierra hubs using an adaptor of some kind?

Thanks, Colin

wilkingj - 16/6/09 at 03:17 PM

Why cant you use the scorpio hubs complete?
ie both back and front. I know Jolly Green Giant has used std granada / scorpio ones.

With the Sierra, the cossie Hub is different to the std sierra hubs and needs the cossie calipers and discs. Its the offsets etc. If the scorpio Hubs will fit as a complete unit, its problem solved.

JGG.... Help me out here, I dont think its as big a problem as that. I know you cant use the 4x4 front hubs due to the drive shafts / bearing arangements, well not without a lot of work.

Paul (Notts) - 16/6/09 at 04:55 PM

Don,t rivit on the side transmission pannels until you have sorted out your gearbox mounts etc.

The old manual has you doing this first.

Paul

+ measure every thing 3 times before you cut or drill......


If something is not going right walk away and have a pint..it will go better the next day

jollygreengiant - 16/6/09 at 05:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj
Why cant you use the scorpio hubs complete?
ie both back and front. I know Jolly Green Giant has used std granada / scorpio ones.

With the Sierra, the cossie Hub is different to the std sierra hubs and needs the cossie calipers and discs. Its the offsets etc. If the scorpio Hubs will fit as a complete unit, its problem solved.

JGG.... Help me out here, I dont think its as big a problem as that. I know you cant use the 4x4 front hubs due to the drive shafts / bearing arangements, well not without a lot of work.


Sorry Geoff, not quite right. Ok here goes, I used an '89' Granada as my doner (earlier more robust Fuse box). I could not use the front hubs/knuckles due to the Granada ones being over all large in dimension AND where the strut fits in at the top meant that I have to get mushroom adaptors specially made as this hole was about 10mm large in diameter (from memmory).
This meant that I had to use Sierra front knuckles/hubs, and, as the spindles (where the wheels mount onto) were not interchangeable between the sierra and Granada front hubs, then this meant that I would have 4 stud wheel flanges at the front. Whilst at the rear I still had 5 stud Granada flanges. This in turn would mean that either I would have to get different wheels front and rear OR change the rear hubs.
So I then found out that later Scorpio Granada (Jelly mould with the wide Chrome Grille) was fitted with 4 stud wheels with the same PCD as Sierra's. These rear Hubs are interchangeable with the Granada (and Sierra) rear hubs as a complete Item. The ONLY difference that I came across was that Later Diesel Scoprio (this is where I got my rear hubs from) has 10mm bolts to connect the Drive shafts instead of the 8mm bolts on the Granada's & Sierra's.
The later Scorpio drive shafts seem better in that they have oil seal gaskets between the mounting faces as opposed to none on the earlier types.

Brakeing wise, I used the basically std 2.0 Granada brakes, Vented front and solid rear. I did have to do a bit of mix and match on the Discs as the Sierra has a slightly different off set, however my local motor Factors (CT Autoparts) were very patient and understanding. I am quite sure, that, even with the engine that you will be using the brakes that I have will be more than adequate. You should also find that with a little searching most Ford calipers can be hung on most Ford mounting holes with a suitable disc, it just takes a little bit of research through a decent Brake Disc application book. Again a decent Local motor factors should be able to let you have or access a book.

The steering column will also be useful, but you will need a lower column extension from a non power steering Sierra, that in its self will need to be cut and extended to meet up with the steering rack.
While you are playing arround with a sierra (early granada with metal tank), see if you can remove the Fuel sender unit (preferably from an injection engined vehicle) complete with about the about 4inches around of the the metal it mounts into. (This will be very useful when you come to doing the fuel tank.)

If you have a trawl through my photo archive and some of the postings I have made you will find (I hope) a lot of useful picture and information.

I hope this helps.

NeilP - 16/6/09 at 05:36 PM

If you can get hold of a complete Sierra column and then mate it with the Granada column (as I did) then you get to use the much smarter looking granada binnacle...

GrumpyOne - 16/6/09 at 06:06 PM

Thanks for that very good explanation, made everything a lot clearer. I had a quick look at your pictures and the one of the front disk assembly.
Now I understand how it goes together, the little mushroom thing goes in where the strut comes out, a eureka moment.
I've been out and had a look at the Scorpio hubs and you are spot on the spindle carrier is about three times larger than a Sierra's, so I need to get a pair of Sierra hubs.
Brakes I can do as you suggest and could work out cheaper for me, parts for the Scorpio are expensive, dearer to repair the calipers than it is to exchange them" so I could just swap them out.

Thanks for your help it is most appreciated.

Cheers
Colin

GrumpyOne - 16/6/09 at 06:08 PM

Sorry I forgot,

When you say the whole column, do you mean take the joint off of the Scorpio column and weld the Sierra one on?

Forgive the daft questions, the last car I worked on was a three year old Viva, of course I was only two at the time

Cheers
Colin

jollygreengiant - 16/6/09 at 08:10 PM

Take the whole column out from the interior of your Scorpio, ( I had to make/weld Brackets to the Viento Column mounting to take the near horizontal adjustable column mounts of the Granada rather than the near the near vertical mounts on the kit chassis). This will give you an adjustable steering wheel. The part of the steering column in the engine bay will not be needed, but you will need an/the extension from a NON-Power steering Sierra, which will need to be cut and extended. There are various thoughts on how this should/could be done, but a suitably close fitting tube of sufficient wall thickness with about 2 inches of overlap properly seam welded on will be quite OK. These extension all fit onto the uper column by the same Triangular clamp witha single 6mm bolt.

HTH
Clive

wilkingj - 16/6/09 at 10:24 PM

Also fit the aftermarket steering column bearing, that Rusty Nuts fitted.
Its lightyears ahead of the Ford one (goes in the bulkhead) and only about £12.
I'm going to fit one.

You could fit the Focus ST170 front discs, which are about 300mm, and use some adaptor brackets and sierra calipers.
You wont get the full braking area, but should look good as a minimum.
Not tried this, and dont know how well it works.
The caliper extension brackets are available on Ebay for about £35. Easy to make as well.

Have a look at:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=78359

And look in his archive, for the pictures.
Well worth a look.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php?action=gal&user=saigonij&folder=Luego%20Velocity%20XT

Well worth a look and plenty of pics on the brakes.

ST170 Discs are not that expensive.
check at www.brakeparts.co.uk
Also the offset is less than 0.5mm when you take the extension bracket into account.

GrumpyOne - 16/6/09 at 11:53 PM

Again thanks for that, I've just bought a set of Sierra hubs and a lower steering column.
You guys can make me spend my money quicker than my wife and daughters

However comparing prices for the wheel bearings, the Sierra is £9 and the Scorpio is £36, so I'll save the money for the hubs straight away.

If I leave the 273 mm Scorpio disks on the back and put the 300 mm ST170s on the front, that should help it stop some.

Thanks guys you have been a big help, now off to look for an aftermarket steering column bearing and a pair of caliper brackets.

Cheers
Colin

wilkingj - 17/6/09 at 08:20 AM

quote:
Originally posted by GrumpyOne
You guys can make me spend my money quicker than my wife and daughters

Thanks guys you have been a big help, now off to look for an aftermarket steering column bearing and a pair of caliper brackets.

Cheers
Colin

Posting on the forum will get your money spent. However, we can point you in the right direction and where to get lower prices.
Check the prices of a set of 300mm discs, on www.brakeparts.co.uk thay are NOT that expensive. So you can get the big Brake look for not a lot of money.

Try this:
Brake bracket Linky
Note he says you will need 17" wheels to give the clearance for the discs and calipers. Maybe it's even more expense


When you get the brackets, can you measure and draw them up and put the pics in your archive. Then we can make our own! They do not look very difficult to make.

I recon they are 10mm ally plate, as the difference between the sierra and st170 discs is about 9.6mm in the offsets. So using the bracket, it offsets the caliper nicely with less than 0.5mm difference.

Should work well.

Why do you want an aftermarket steering column? Any will do, its the switches and indicator cancelling bits you want. Also the Viento chassis is bracketed for the Sierra column. What steering wheel you put on is a different matter. Stick with the sierra steering wheel until you have passed the IVA. Its easier to pass.

Same for the windscreen... leave it off. no heater, wipers or washers required.

They can all go on after IVA, it will get you on the road more quickly, and less to fail on.

stevegough - 17/6/09 at 09:09 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul (Notts)
Don,t rivit on the side transmission pannels until you have sorted out your gearbox mounts etc.

The old manual has you doing this first.

Paul

+ measure every thing 3 times before you cut or drill......


If something is not going right walk away and have a pint..it will go better the next day



Absolutely Right! This is exactly the stage I am at now - as you say, if you follow the 'manual build sequence' you end up cocking up bigstyle!

Chopping and changing the gearbox mount / handbrake mountings / and top of the tunnel small cross member which was in the way of the gearstick is far easier before you clad the tunnel - I have also had the fuel and brake lines in the tunnel on and off a few times whilst trying to fit the gearbox !

As I said, Good call !

Regardz, Steve.

wilkingj - 17/6/09 at 11:41 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul (Notts)
Don,t rivit on the side transmission pannels until you have sorted out your gearbox mounts etc.

The old manual has you doing this first.

Paul

+ measure every thing 3 times before you cut or drill......


If something is not going right walk away and have a pint..it will go better the next day


Dead right.

Put in an access panel / hole for the gearbox filler. I had to make an additional hole as my speedo sender came loose in the gearbox, and you just cannot get to it.
It would have been neater to have done the access panels / holes with the panels off the car during the build.
I just fitted rivnuts to secure the access flaps on, an easy solution really.

The trick is to think it all through very thouroughly FIRST.
Ask on here... We have all been where you are now. You can benefit from the vast experience on here... You only have to ask.
Its not as daft as it sounds!

rusty nuts - 17/6/09 at 07:28 PM

Might be worth running the loom, brake and fuel pipes down the tunnel before fitting the panels

GrumpyOne - 17/6/09 at 11:21 PM

Thanks for that again, lots of useful information and lots to think about. I am sure between yourselfs and Ben from Luego I will manage to build something, not sure if it will be a car but something.
Ben is only 30 minutes from me, I am sure he will be sick of the sight of me before I am finished

Cheers
Colin

simonk - 24/6/09 at 12:31 PM

Hello

Not sure I wholly agree with the bit about fitting the tunnel panels after you've done all the work. I fitted mine first, and while getting some stuff done after was a struggle at least you think about how you can get to it when you fit it rather than getting it all in there, closing the tunnel then working out that there's stuff you can't get to........

Do double think on brake, fuel and cable runs, particularly around the diff nose, the gearbox tail - there's not a lot of space left once they are in particularly with an LT77.

Using the washer spacing set the bottom front wishbones all the way forwards and the tops all the way back to maximise castor.

On your coil-overs you may find that the eyes are half inch, where the bolts are 12mm. GAZ do little tubular shims that do the job - old Luego just said to do them up tight........

Watch out for the orientation of the bolts at the front of the lower rear wishbones. If you fit them pointing threads to the rear then panel the bulkhead they're in there for ever ( I spotted this deliberate mistake before I put the panels on !)

Fit the diff before the rear wishbones as the wishbone is in the way of getting the long bolts in place - found this out whilst holding the diff up with one hand and trying to get the bolt in with the other...

Best of luck
Simon

jollygreengiant - 24/6/09 at 05:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by simonk

Watch out for the orientation of the bolts at the front of the lower rear wishbones. If you fit them pointing threads to the rear then panel the bulkhead they're in there for ever ( I spotted this deliberate mistake before I put the panels on !)

Simon


OR, make the rear lower bulk head panels removable.

I would also make small holes in the rear bulkhead upper panel that match the location of/for access to the rear damper upper mounting bolt, then fill this hole (the hole size being just big enough to get a socket on the nut/bolt) with an appropriate sized blanking grommet.

repper - 29/6/09 at 07:08 PM

first off all hi and welcom to the luego famlly

ive been building my V8 viento for about 4 years on and off and one thing ive noticed is how well most things fit my mate has been building a westfeld a bout the same lenth off time as my self and has comented loads off times how huch a better car the luego is compered to the his westfeld as in panle fit and moor
so iam shor you will have bad days but stick with it and it will be well worth it in the end
good look with the build we are hear as and when you need us
jim

NeilP - 29/6/09 at 09:17 PM

My column trick was to swap the adjuster bracket off the sierra column onto the granada. You'll need to take an angry grinder to the ali casing on the granada colum to allow the adjuster bracket to fall in the right place but it does not involve taking off much material and therefore won't impact on the strength...

GrumpyOne - 29/6/09 at 10:40 PM

Thanks folks, priceless stuff this.

Ben from Luego came round the other night and took my engine and gearbox away to make the mounts for my chassis, since I can't weld I figured this was my best option to have it done properly.

On a side note, don't try to take the engine and gearbox out of a Scorpio on your own, it nearly killed me a few times I had to drop the engine and box down on to a small pallet, lift the front of the car up as high as it would go with the engine hoist, tie a rope to the pallet and drag it out from underneath. Every muscle I have has ached for days afterwards and I had a few choice words for Mr Ford and his BOB engine!!!

Once the engine comes back and I strip it down I am obviously not going to use the power steering pump or the AC pump which will only leave me with the crankshaft pulley, the water pump pulley and the alternator.
Where is the best place to buy a custom drivebelt from, it's one of those three ridge jobs. I have searched the forum but haven't found anything mentioned about drivebelts?

Cheers
Colin

wilkingj - 30/6/09 at 08:36 AM

quote:
Originally posted by GrumpyOne
Thanks folks, priceless stuff this.

On a side note, don't try to take the engine and gearbox out of a Scorpio on your own, it nearly killed me a few times I had to drop the engine and box down on to a small pallet, lift the front of the car up as high as it would go with the engine hoist, tie a rope to the pallet and drag it out from underneath. Every muscle I have has ached for days afterwards and I had a few choice words for Mr Ford and his BOB engine!!!

Cheers
Colin


You can get a cheap chain block for lifting.
Mine is a 1 ton, and cost me £20 secondhand. But 500Kg ones are not that expensive new. They give easy lifting, and excellent control without having to hang onto a rope for dear life!

Linky to Blocks

Then a few bits of scaffold pole (two across the top) to make a lifting trellis would give you a strong lift in the garage. Also dismantlable and easy to store. Use scaffold clamps and the swivel ones for the odd angles. Talk nicely to the chaps with the scaffolding lorries.
Some wont sell due to the liability issues.

The ideal item is a well supported RSJ across just under the roof, and a Girder Trolley to hang the chain block from.
Try a Reclaimed Building materials place, as they are expensive when new.


This site gives you a picture, It wouldnt be that hard to make one. Although its not really necessary, if you dont mind pulling the car back and forth to remove the engine.

Linky to Girder Trolly Pics

Or

Another Linky to Grider Trolleys and Pics

These will give you ideas if you intend on making them yourself.

Having decent lifting gear is very useful. Bad Backs can be difficult and last for the rest of your life. DONT risk it.

Last resort is to hire an engine crane.
Only downside is the car is so low, you cant always get the crane legs under the car!

It just needs some thinking about.

jollygreengiant - 30/6/09 at 09:12 AM

quote:
Originally posted by GrumpyOne
Thanks folks, priceless stuff this.


Where is the best place to buy a custom drivebelt from, it's one of those three ridge jobs. I have searched the forum but haven't found anything mentioned about drivebelts?

Cheers
Colin


Halfords would probably be your best bet, or a good Motor Factors (see previous post about getting friendly with local motor factors). Wind a piece of string (tightly and only once) around all the pulleys that the belt needs to go around, and trim it so that the ends just touch. This length of string will be the length of the belt that you will need and you measure the string in MM. Jot that length down on a piece of paper and leave 3 spaces at the begining. At the begining write 3PK (3 = number of ribs, PK = rib belt). You should now have a number vaguely resembling either
3PK792
OR
3PK1142

The above number will be the part number of the belt that you require. If one is not availble the go to the next nearest size up that IS available.

Hope this helps.

GrumpyOne - 30/6/09 at 10:32 AM

Thanks JGG

Absolutly amazing, is there no question that stumps Locost builders

Thanks
Colin

GrumpyOne - 30/6/09 at 10:41 AM


Last resort is to hire an engine crane.
Only downside is the car is so low, you cant always get the crane legs under the car!

It just needs some thinking about.


Thanks for this,
I have an engine hoist, the problem with the Scorpio is the engine comes out from underneath and to drop it out of the engine bay you have to take the subframe out including the steering rack etc which means you can't move the car. I was going to build a trolley to take the engine when I lowered it but there wasn't enough room to get it in and I couldn't get the car any higher.
Lesson learned though, never use a Scorpio as a donor again or get my wife to do the dragging

Cheers
Colin