and what another bunch of scum bags that write newspapers!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/14/wood_green_ricin_case/
Cheers,
James
TBH i see no reason why ID cards shouldnt be brought in. You should only fear them if you have something to hide. They are only trying to justify it
with terrorism etc to try and have a good comeback to the people who oppose them.
David
I agree with flak monkey. I think in today’s society they are becoming a necessary evil and besides I will be happy to carry one, I am proud to be a
citizen of this country and have nothing to hide. If it goes someway to ensure the security and safety of the UK it can’t be a bad thing.
The thing is however if your terrorist can knock up a batch of Rican in his flat or has the financial backing of al-Qaeda I am sure that making his
own ID card would not be that bigger task.
quote:
Originally posted by longwayoff
I agree with flak monkey. I think in today’s society they are becoming a necessary evil and besides I will be happy to carry one, I am proud to be a citizen of this country and have nothing to hide. If it goes someway to ensure the security and safety of the UK it can’t be a bad thing.
The thing is however if your terrorist can knock up a batch of Rican in his flat or has the financial backing of al-Qaeda I am sure that making his own ID card would not be that bigger task.
This is my ID card and I have no problem carrying it other than is hard to see where Im going
In principle I agree with compulsary ID cards.
However....
a) The govt will not implement the scheme correctly.
b)If implemented properly they would save the taxpayer far more than the cost so they should be FREE.
c)There should be a compulsary MINIMUM 1 year jail sentence for possesion of a fake card and a compulsary MINIMUM 10 years for forgery.
On a more serious note Fred in port Elizabeth will back me that they are a pain to carry. If they get wet its a new book and all the paper work to go
with it. The were quite big as well so the dam things filled wallet and pocket. Now being in Africa you carry your gun as well as a cell phone its
kinda crowded in your pockets.
Regardless of the terrorism stuff that they use to try and pursuade people that ID cards are a good idea, i doubt it will help a huge amount. It will
go some way to helping, but not entirely.
I just simply see no reason why a national ID card should not be brought in. Infact many of us carry ID in the form of picture card driving liscences,
so why not have some form of indisputable ID for everyone? Several countries already have a national ID scheme in place.
I dont like websites like no2id as they give a hugely biased opinion, and use scaremonger tactics to convince you that they are a bad idea. (Very
similar to the no to the euro people).
As i said before, unless you have something to hide you should have no reason to object to an ID card. They would help in several ways, including a
proper way of IDing people for buying age restricted stuff. I also see no reason why they shouldnt have your finger prints and criminal record (if you
have one) and your medical records etc on them. So if you are authorised to find that stuff out you can quickly and easily.
Some may not agree, but its just my opinion.
EDIT: I agree with what Snuggs says. If brought in they need to be brought in properly, and with the appropriate penalties for abuse/forgeries etc.
(Infact it should be able to make them unforgeable...but they need to keep them up-to-date with current techniques...)
David
[Edited on 15/4/05 by flak monkey]
Ok I might be a bit of a nut or just mad but I still think that they can’t be a bad thing. We had them in WW2 and people seemed happy, I don’t know but it probably made us feel a bit more secure, as for the cost this loony government will spend the cash on something equally dumb so why not ID cards. And here is were I get slagged off by everybody, if it was up to me I would DNA test and security ID chip everyone in the UK told you I was mad.
This thread shows how easy it is for Governments to brainwash the masses.
David
if they do bring it in, will it contain ur finger prints, dna etc? and if so will it be linked to the police database so, that as soon as you have it
made and you have gotton away with a crime etc you can be aressed etc
Phil
quote:
Originally posted by DavidM
This thread shows how easy it is for Governments to brainwash the masses.
David
Why don't we all have a chip implanted in our heads, then every time we walk past a sensor (they'll be everywhere like cameras) -
they'll know where we are.
And when we're speeding, coming in and out of the country and you can headbutt the counter in the shops to pay for things.
ID cards my arse.
STOP LETTING THEM IN MIGHT HELP or keeping tags on whoever, when they arrive, instead of letting illegals go "so long as you report back in a
week or two"
Because I have nothing to hide I WILL NOT ACCEPT ID CARDS.
FREE COUNTRY - REMEMBER
ATB
Simon
As long as I get to run off with Jenny Agutter I don't care.
I know who I am, everyone who needs to know knows who I am - if anyone else wants to know who I am they can find out for themselves if they don't
believe me. The ID cards will contain DNA info if they are introduced, although maybe not initially. ID cards are all about control, and I don't
want His Tonyness (or anyone else) controlling me.
If you still think ID cards are a good idea, consider this (sorry for the length):
ORDERING PIZZA IN 2008
Operator: Thank you for calling Pizza Hut. May I have your national ID number?
Customer: Hi, I'd like to place an order.
Operator: I must have your NIDN first, sir.
Customer: My National ID Number, yeah, hold on, eh, it's 6102049998-45-54610.
Operator: Thank you Mr Sheehan. I see you live at 1742 Meadowland Drive, and the phone number is 494-2366. Your office number over at Lincoln
Insurance is 745-2302 and your cell number is 266-2566. Email address is sheehan@home.net. Which number are you calling from sir?
Customer: Huh? I'm at home. Where'd you get all this information?
Operator: We're wired into the HSS, sir.
Customer: The HSS, what is that?
Operator: We're wired into the Homeland Security System, sir. This will add only 15 seconds to your ordering time.
Customer: (sighs) Oh well, I'd like to order a couple of your All-Meat Special pizzas.
Operator: I don't think that's a good idea, sir.
Customer: Whaddya mean?
Operator: Sir, your medical records and commode sensors indicate that you've got very high blood pressure and extremely high cholesterol. Your
National Health Care provider won't allow such an unhealthy choice.
Customer: What?!?! What do you recommend, then?
Operator: You might try our low-fat Soybean Pizza. I'm sure you'll like it.
Customer: What makes you think I'd like something like that?
Operator: Well, you checked out 'Gourmet Soybean Recipes' from your local library last week, sir. That's why I made the suggestion.
Customer: All right, all right. Give me two family-sized ones, then.
Operator: That should be plenty for you, your wife and your four kids. Your 2 dogs can finish the crusts, sir. Your total is $49.99.
Customer: Lemme give you my credit card number.
Operator: I'm sorry sir, but I'm afraid you'll have to pay in cash. Your credit card balance is over its limit.
Customer: I'll run over to the ATM and get some cash before your driver gets here.
Operator: That won't work either, sir. Your checking account is overdrawn also.
Customer: Never mind! Just send the pizzas. I'll have the cash ready. How long will it take?
Operator: We're running a little behind, sir. It'll be about 45 minutes, sir. If you're in a hurry you might want to pick'em up
while you're out getting the cash, but then, carrying pizzas on a motorcycle can be a little awkward.
Customer: Wait! How do you know I ride a scooter?
Operator: It says here you're in arrears on your car payments, so your car got repo'ed. But your Harley's paid for and you just filled
the tank yesterday.
Customer: Well, I'll be a #%#^^&$%^$@#
Operator: I'd advise watching your language, sir. You've already got a July 4, 2003 conviction for cussing out a cop and another one I see
here in September for contempt at your hearing for cussing at a judge. Oh yes, I see here that you just got out from a 90 day stay in the State
Correctional Facility. Is this your first pizza since your return to society?
Customer: (speechless)
Operator: Will there be anything else, sir?
Customer: Yes, I have a coupon for a free 2 liter of Coke..
Operator: I'm sorry sir, but our ad's exclusionary clause prevents us from offering free soda to diabetics. The New Constitution prohibits
this.
Thank you for calling Pizza Hut.
i,m afraid its not a free country any more,the indigenous population being (at the moment) in the majority are being trampled into the ground,you are
not allowed to stand up for your rights or say what you think in case it offends someone.
this can also be seen in the "ban 5th gear" thread.
the sooner bliar and his apologetic bunch of clowns gets out and someone who wants to put the GREAT back in britain gets in the better.
last year more people emigrated than came here,why do you think that is?
the working/tax paying people are getting fewer and the chavy scroungers are increasing,soon we will all have a couple of extra families to pay for as
well as our own.
will the last one to leave this god forsaken $h1thole please turn the lights off!
a couple of thoughts for you
fingerprints are only a 95% accurate (read unique) at best depending on who you believe - some quote as low as 80% based on that there are 2.5
million people in the UK alone who share identical fingerprints to at least one other person....
do you really want to be arrested for something you didn't do ?
DNA is NOT completely unique (in the way it is tested) and can only ever be 99.5% accurate - that gives 250000 people in the UK with a DNA
doppleganger.........
Food for thought ?
[Edited on 15/4/05 by DaveFJ]
Humm sounds to me like most folk here are pretty hacked off by the current incumbents who reside in Tony’s Den should we have a pre May vote here?
mmmmm, i travel all over the world, it took me 1 1/2 hrs last week to get into the U.S. I know i'm ok, most of you know i'm ok, the security
people dont, should i be allowed to walk straight thru ? Personally i'm glad there so strict these days, after all i feel better knowing as much
as possible as been done too make sure all those sat along side me at 40,000 feet are a pretty safe bunch.
ID card ? i have no problem
DNA ? i have no problem,
Why ? cos ive nothing too hide, i hear the "free country" shouts but how do we make a "free country" safe ? just allow everyone
and anyone to wander about as we please ? life just aint that simple.
How many on here have wifes, girlfriends daughters ? how would you feel if one of these was raped ? (sorry if i offend using this example) if we had a
DNA register how easy would it be too solve the crime ? no need for long court case's, adding disstress to allready disstress'd females ?
Everyone is entitled to ther own opinion but mine is i have nothing too hide, (but only i know that don't i ?) so i'm quite happy too prove
who i am via ID or DNA type cards ect.....
Define a free country for me please ?
If 99.5% of people have dissimilar DNA then the remaining 0.5% ought to have a valid aliby. Making them innocent.
I have no problems with carrying one. HOWEVER, if it's going to be done it's got to be done across the board and be compulsory to carry one.
Otherwise it is totally useless IMHO.
If you carry a mobile only a fool thinks they cant be tracked! If need be, that humble phone you're carrying could be easily turned into a
tracking device... (nudge, nudge,wink,wink). My company knows my area locality by the mast ID which appears on your phone bill if requested 
Therefore, if you say you're in Hemel but really you're in Sheffield... they will easily know. Beware - big brother has the potential to
know where you are - he just doesn't NEED to know... YET!
i dont have a problem with having an id card,i have had several with companies i have worked for,thing is are the type of people that are
terrorist/criminals/people with things to hide going to carry one?doubt it and how long before the forgers move in?remember the euro was available
from the russian mafia before the legit ones were released.
but why should i have to pay £45? for it?
my main concern is - whats the point - it achieves nothing and wastes billions
It has been shown that it will have no effect on benefit fraud or terrorism (illegals and asylum seekers don't/won't carry them anyway...
so what is the damn point ?
I used to think "I have nothing to hide, I would be happy to carry an ID card".
Nowadays, Im not so sure. I still have nothing to hide, but even though, I dont want my movements to be tracked in such microscopic detail.
I also dont want to have to pay between £45 and £90 for the privelidge.
Reading an article a while back, I realised that its just another way to extract money from the masses.
The idea is we all carry these cards, they will have some kind of biometric data on them, like fingerprint, dna or retina scan. There will eventually
be fingerprint/eye scanners implemented everywhere. Police will carry mobile units in their cars, you will be scanned to access welfare benefits, NHS
treatment, at airports etc etc. The point is, if all my info is on some big database somewhere, and everyone who is entitled to know who I am, Police,
airport staff etc, have the equipment to verify my identity by scanning my finger and their computer tells them that Im Dave, I live at xxxx etc etc,
why the hell do I need a bit of card with this information on it? and why do I have to pay for that card?
Also, who pays for all these scanners? yeah, the tax payer. Oh, and who pays for their upkeep? yep, you guessed it, taxpayers again. Lets face it,
most facilities that deal with the public have to chain their pens to the desk, and even these dont usually work, how reliable is a scanning device at
an airport that will be constantly used by thousands of sweaty-palmed people?
This is all just another way for the government to control the population. They use the "terror" threat to brainwash the tabloid-reading
masses into believeing their spin, and sadly, its working.
Give it 5 years...
ID cards,
GPS trackers in all cars,
use of mobile phones to track individual people,
Big Brother is already watching you, but he will soon be able to see a hell of a lot more.
George Orwell was pretty much spot on except for the date.
Oh, when we do get ID cards, will it have my occupation on it? Will it say "terrorist" on the cards belonging to terrorists?
[Edited on 15/4/05 by dave dickson]
the only argument i will hear against them is the cost. I just dont have time for the control or big bro arguments - really, i couldnt care less who
knows what im up to.
the fact is, they will happen, and eventually they will be implanted chips (right hand anyone?!) and yes, the possibility exists that they will be
misused against us.
but for now, id love a card with full fingerprint, iris and DNA data - cant fault the idea myself.
And, id be very suprised indeed if the previously posted fact on DNA profiling is correct - i personally could devise a test to reveal unique
profiles. All you have to do is pick a good mix of endonucleases to ensure that each chromosome is cut up into a unique pattern. 
edit: about terrorists and crims not having cards, that the idea in a way - if you dont have a card you cant buy anything. at least, thats how it
should work.
[Edited on 15/4/05 by JoelP]
ID cards are proposed as a method of stopping terrorists. You know, the ones with forged pasports, the ones who will forge ID cards.
anyone remember September 2001. The 20 terrorists who attacked the US used their valid passports to get onto the planes.
ID cards will stop terrorism?
That's better!
I would have no objections to ID cards if a single politician could tell me how that would prevent anything in the world happening.
I believe many of the countries in the developed world have ID cards, so it's clear to see how well they work to prevent terrorism and crime.
If they want to squeeze another £70 out of me, that is fine if they are going to spend it on something that would make a difference. For instance, to
increase the number of anti terrorist officers, immigration officers, or benefit fraud investigators.
I suppose if I refuse to carry one I will be criminalised too.
One question I have which no one has answered though - how will they know it really is me who is applying for an ID card to prove I am me??
I am assuming they would be issued by government. Ie done from official records. No application required as i think they would be compulsory....
and that leads on to the next question - who IS the real you?!
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
and that leads on to the next question - who IS the real you?!
An outsiders view...
I'm against unnecessary intrusions into my privacy.
All well and good to say you've nothing to hide, I'm sure we all scrupulously obey the speed limit to the last MPH, claim all the ebay sales
we make on our taxes, never cross the border home with a half a packet of foreign tobacco...
There simply comes a point when it none of the "jack-booted arsehole's" business what I've been up to. Freedom and liberty mean
something, life without them is pretty pointless IMHO.
Add in the commercial misuses of private data and it's simply a no-brainer.
Yes, we make choices every day which compromise our privacy, carrying the mobile phone, using a transponder for road and bridge tolls, using a credit
or debit card --- BUT --- they are OUR choices.
I thought being stopped in the street and forced to show your papers went out with the Gestapo?!?
Cheers, Ted
mmmmmmmmm i remember smoking my first fag? as in cigarette not!!! well you know p/c and all that i was about eleven and was hidden around the back ot the local council yard inside a bloody hut with a few mates, and when i got home the old man wolloped me cause the lady across the road tole him???? how i was at least 2 miles away. thing was every one new everyone,were they nosey or just looking out for each other and there kin? THATS WHAT WE HAVE LOST
Hi,
A big thumbs down to ID cards from me too!!!!
Look at it this way - It's already far too easy to gather enough information together to carry out identity theft, we all have to shred every
piece of official documentation in case someone digs it out of our bins while we sleep.
So, how nice of the government to gather all the juicy bits of our identification together into one place along with all our biometric information and
then use this potentially to decide whether we are "good" or "bad", "citizen" or "terrorist", "free"
or locked up! I for one don't fancy having to provide an alibi for a crime every few months just because someone with similar
fingerprint/dna/iris committed rape or murder!
Of course it will be well implemented and highly secure and there will be no chance of a systems failure or unauthorised access will there???? Just
like every other Government implemented piece of information technology.... I suppose the upside is that it will take so long to implement that it may
never actually happen but the downside is that they will spend billions of our hard earned cash before they realise this!!
Personally I prefer Michael Howard's stance on crime and enjoyed his proposals about making the Yob's fear the police again by getting
"in their face." Like most things, it is just common sense which is required.
I'd rather die a free man than live under lock and key, even if it was a terrorist who were to cause my death!
Cheers,
Craig.
quote:
On a more serious note Fred in port Elizabeth will back me that they are a pain to carry. If they get wet its a new book and all the paper work to go with it. The were quite big as well so the dam things filled wallet and pocket. Now being in Africa you carry your gun as well as a cell phone its kinda crowded in your pockets
Ian,
I think the key requirement, besides the legality, when considering carrying a gun is being absolutely sure you are both trained to use it and capable
of using it. "Trained" and "Capable" are very different things when it comes to using lethal force...
Cheers,
Craig.
Craig,
No dispute on the "Trained AND Capable" aspect of owning, carrying and using a gun. Common sense really.
The security of the information would be a big issue for me. Bets on it would be on a Windows system and full of holes!
quote:
Originally posted by andkilde
. Freedom and liberty mean something, life without them is pretty pointless IMHO.
...
I thought being stopped in the street and forced to show your papers went out with the Gestapo?!?
Cheers, Ted
We Spaniards have both ID card and lots more terrorists than you. The measure is useless to say the least.
"People who would give up their Freedom for security deserve neither" -Benjamin Franklin
[Edited on 18/4/05 by Alez]
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Why should I have to prove who I am?
If a crime is commited it is up to the LAW to find evidence and persue the guilty party! It is not everyone else's responsibility to prove their
innocence!
There are far too many miscarriages of justice already without adding the guilty until proven innocent regime of the current government.
As already stated many times an ID card does not prove your innocence, but does supply another means to implicate innocent parties by theft, fraud or
coincidence.
I see a lot of complaining about liberties being taken with regards to our motoring (speed cameras, etc). Do you really believe that carrying an ID
card will improve things?
When you are being stopped for random checks on foot as well as motoring and are hauled away for questioning when you forget to pick up your ID on the
way out of the house, you might start to think differently.
All new rules and regulations are open for abuse by those above and below the LAW.
In a country where law breakers have more rights than victims is this really to our benefit?
I think not!
Terry
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=172060&f=42&h=0