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BMW Mini Cooper S

westf27 - 5/8/08 at 04:22 PM

Looking at one of these,its a John Cooper Works.Anyone got/had one,even just standard cooper or s.Whats bad whats good.

BenB - 5/8/08 at 04:25 PM

I've got a supercharger off one and 4 injectors Very nice they are too

Last of the supercharged Coopers. How can you have a CooperS with a turbo on it (oh the shame.....)....

westf27 - 5/8/08 at 04:40 PM

Ben,good point lag may be an issue,supercharger is always on tap for power.So thats one negative.

eznfrank - 5/8/08 at 04:40 PM

I had a Cooper S for about a year and recently nearly bought another. Depends what you want out of a car but they're good fun and pretty quick for what they are. Loved the supercharger whine too!

Main downside for me was space, even struggled with medium sized suitcases and I go away quite a lot so it was a bit of a drag. I also had a problem with the onboard computer failing but BMW just re-set it (after they asked me if I had recently thrashed the car )

I would have probably kept it but I bought it cash and then later needed a new bathroom and kitchen and couldn't really justify Ł18k sat in my works carpark all day doing nowt!!! I think I lost less than a grand on it but that was back when the new waiting list was massive!!

On average mine did about 23mpg! But I do have a particularly "stop-start" commute.

[Edited on 5/8/08 by eznfrank]

westf27 - 5/8/08 at 04:48 PM

ok thats positive,thanks

Wells - 5/8/08 at 04:50 PM

I have one sitting in front of me in the showroom. I sell them for a living. Give me a shout and I will keep you right.

Fatgadget - 5/8/08 at 04:51 PM

Sacrilege! A real Mini Cooper S is 1275cc has twin fuel tanks,hugs the road like a limpet and leaks like a sieve.

iank - 5/8/08 at 04:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Fatgadget
...and leaks like a sieve.

Water into the cabin and oil out of the engine

adam1985 - 5/8/08 at 04:53 PM

i dont like them typical bmw plain and everything is an extra

mr henderson - 5/8/08 at 05:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by westf27
Ben,good point lag may be an issue,supercharger is always on tap for power.So thats one negative.

On the other hand, turbos can produce good torque and power at much lower rpm than superchargers, simply because the boost they produce doesn't depend on the engine speed.

A good example is the Audi 1.8t turbo engine which doesn't need lots of revs to get it going. Just a question of getting the turbo sizing and control right

John

carpmart - 5/8/08 at 05:20 PM

My wife has had one for a year now. I have 're sized' the supercharger pulley and put a free flowing cold air induction kit on hers. Also put some iridium plugs in it and I reckon I have near to the works output now!

I was happy to not buy the works and go for a standard cooper s but with the aero kit which I personally think makes the car.

Great car but very tiresome on longer journeys as with runflats the ride is ROCK hard.

She hasn't worn the runflats out yet but I will be going for 'ordinary' tyres when these are dead.

The supercharger whine is great!

Her car is running at circa 28 mpg but if get hold of it hat drops quite quickly.

Finally, I am not sure its a 'man's' car?

BenB - 5/8/08 at 05:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson

quote:
Originally posted by westf27
Ben,good point lag may be an issue,supercharger is always on tap for power.So thats one negative.

On the other hand, turbos can produce good torque and power at much lower rpm than superchargers, simply because the boost they produce doesn't depend on the engine speed.

A good example is the Audi 1.8t turbo engine which doesn't need lots of revs to get it going. Just a question of getting the turbo sizing and control right

John

You can get low down grunt by (without using a variable vane turbo) only by over-turbo'ing and then blowing off the crazy amounts of boost at "proper" rpms. The output curve of compressors is pretty skewed to high rpm....
For low down grunt a belt driven supercharger (Roots or twin screw) will beat an equivalent exhaust drive centrifugal supercharger hands down...

westf27 - 5/8/08 at 05:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
My wife has had one for a year now. I have 're sized' the supercharger pulley and put a free flowing cold air induction kit on hers. Also put some iridium plugs in it and I reckon I have near to the works output now!

I was happy to not buy the works and go for a standard cooper s but with the aero kit which I personally think makes the car.

Great car but very tiresome on longer journeys as with runflats the ride is ROCK hard.

She hasn't worn the runflats out yet but I will be going for 'ordinary' tyres when these are dead.

The supercharger whine is great!

Her car is running at circa 28 mpg but if get hold of it hat drops quite quickly.

Finally, I am not sure its a 'man's' car?

ok so what car can you buy that doesnt have a gay,hairdresser or any other tag.

something that only a bloke can drive.

afj - 5/8/08 at 05:47 PM

all off the crashed ones ive picked up held together very well ....so thats a plus. also ive not ever picked up a mini thats brokendown

phoenix70 - 5/8/08 at 05:50 PM

I really wouldn't recommend the works conversion, I've driven both the standard and the works conversion S, and the standard is much better. The problem with the works, is it's got too much power, the traction control just robs all the power unless you are featherlite on the throttle. If you switch off the TC, you'll just end up spinning up the front wheels all the time.

I think the new mini is great, in fact I'm planning to get one for SWIMBO when its time to replace her current car.

Cheers

Scott

afj - 5/8/08 at 05:50 PM

older style civic type r? focus st golf GTi/R32

mr henderson - 5/8/08 at 05:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by BenB

quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson

quote:
Originally posted by westf27
Ben,good point lag may be an issue,supercharger is always on tap for power.So thats one negative.

On the other hand, turbos can produce good torque and power at much lower rpm than superchargers, simply because the boost they produce doesn't depend on the engine speed.

A good example is the Audi 1.8t turbo engine which doesn't need lots of revs to get it going. Just a question of getting the turbo sizing and control right

John

You can get low down grunt by (without using a variable vane turbo) only by over-turbo'ing and then blowing off the crazy amounts of boost at "proper" rpms. The output curve of compressors is pretty skewed to high rpm....
For low down grunt a belt driven supercharger (Roots or twin screw) will beat an equivalent exhaust drive centrifugal supercharger hands down...

Well I guess that's why they use superchargers on diesels then.

John

I love speed :-P - 5/8/08 at 06:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson

Well I guess that's why they use superchargers on diesels then.

John

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbodiesel

Which more or less says diesel is better suited to turbo's than petrol as of smaller rev range etc

[Edited on 5/8/2008 by I love speed :-P]

iank - 5/8/08 at 06:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by westf27

quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
My wife has had one for a year now. I have 're sized' the supercharger pulley and put a free flowing cold air induction kit on hers. Also put some iridium plugs in it and I reckon I have near to the works output now!

I was happy to not buy the works and go for a standard cooper s but with the aero kit which I personally think makes the car.

Great car but very tiresome on longer journeys as with runflats the ride is ROCK hard.

She hasn't worn the runflats out yet but I will be going for 'ordinary' tyres when these are dead.

The supercharger whine is great!

Her car is running at circa 28 mpg but if get hold of it hat drops quite quickly.

Finally, I am not sure its a 'man's' car?

ok so what car can you buy that doesnt have a gay,hairdresser or any other tag.

something that only a bloke can drive.

Bowler Wildcat
grrrr

BenB - 5/8/08 at 06:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson

quote:
Originally posted by BenB

quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson

quote:
Originally posted by westf27
Ben,good point lag may be an issue,supercharger is always on tap for power.So thats one negative.

On the other hand, turbos can produce good torque and power at much lower rpm than superchargers, simply because the boost they produce doesn't depend on the engine speed.

A good example is the Audi 1.8t turbo engine which doesn't need lots of revs to get it going. Just a question of getting the turbo sizing and control right

John

You can get low down grunt by (without using a variable vane turbo) only by over-turbo'ing and then blowing off the crazy amounts of boost at "proper" rpms. The output curve of compressors is pretty skewed to high rpm....
For low down grunt a belt driven supercharger (Roots or twin screw) will beat an equivalent exhaust drive centrifugal supercharger hands down...

Well I guess that's why they use superchargers on diesels then.

John

Turbo diesels are a case in point re what I'm talking about!!!
Rev to 4k and only produce decent power after about 3.2k!!!!!
You can spin a turbo or spin a supercharger as fast as you want if you get the pulleys or compressor / vanes the right size but for a given RPM a centrifugal type blower (whether exhaust driven or belt driven) will produce power later on in its rpm range (the blower not the car!!!!) than a Rootes or twin screw (which give more linear boost but with decreased efficiency- especially in the case of the Rootes).

Or put it this way. If Turbos are so uber powerful with absolutely no downside whatsoever why would they (out of preference) put a blower on drag cars. Or why wouldn't they just put the worlds biggest turbo on cars with an almost vertical boost graph at anything above idle and then just blow off the excess boost. If centrifugal blowers (whichever way you drive them) are so magnificent why would people bother with Rootes or twin-screws.....?

A mini is supposed to be a zippy run-around.... Therefore in my book a supercharger would be much more preferable than a turbo. Unfortunately, peak BHP sells cars more than the shape of the power output graph and hence exhaust drive superchargers are often used in preference to a belt-driven supercharger despite the fact that the belt-drive supercharger may well drive nicer and may even be quicker (it doesn't matter if you produce 1000Bhp if it all happens between 4999rpm and 5000rpm)......

mr henderson - 5/8/08 at 07:14 PM

I'm not going to get into an argument about turbos versus superchargers, I only made my earlier comment to remind people that turbos have some advantages.

All I will do is to suggest anybody who is really interestedin the subject to read the various books that are available, especially this one
http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-Turbocharger-Engineering-Performance/dp/0837601606

or simply have a look at what most manufacturers and tuners use when they want more power from an engine

John

hellbent345 - 5/8/08 at 07:16 PM

we had a mini cooper s at one point, and i learned to drive in a mini, and i can say that they are a great little car, very tight go kart like handling and really nippy, as above the supercharger whine is excellent, problems would be the exceedingly small rear seats and the small boot. but i really want another one!
I wouldnt say gay at all, they are a hot hatch really, but it does dpend if you have the 'italian job' aerokits on etc

Danozeman - 5/8/08 at 07:35 PM

Cooper S's are great fun but theres no room in them. My sister has a mini one which she uses for her kleeneze stuff and cant fit the books in it let alone the goods.

Get a standard S and upgrade the supercharger etc and theyr a beast.

BenB - 5/8/08 at 08:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
I'm not going to get into an argument about turbos versus superchargers, I only made my earlier comment to remind people that turbos have some advantages.

All I will do is to suggest anybody who is really interestedin the subject to read the various books that are available, especially this one
http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-Turbocharger-Engineering-Performance/dp/0837601606

or simply have a look at what most manufacturers and tuners use when they want more power from an engine

John

True. I'm just pointing out that turbo vs supercharged engines deliver power in different ways and for me a Mini should have low end zippiness. And the Corky Bell book on turbos is good. Almost as good as his one on superchargers

All I'll say is this from the yahoo comparison between the supercharged and turbo'd Cooper S's

"Its worth reiterating that a turbocharged engine and a supercharged engine deliver their performance in quite different ways.

What was particularly exhilarating about the old car was the low-end grunt from the always-on supercharger. The turbo power delivery is less dramatic down low but in the midrange and upper reaches of the rev band, it provides even more brutal shove."

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/mini-cooper-s-1005327.html

Hellfire - 5/8/08 at 08:51 PM

My Seat Leon FR TDi

Has 258 lb/ft of torque @ 1800 revs, thats more than a BMW530i, Merc E350, Porsche Boxter S. I revs to 4500 before the turbo spools out. It'll do 135mph (where speeds allow) and it can (and often does) return more than 50mpg (6 speed)

Even though this is my company car - I loved it to pieces... there's hardly a car on the road I'd prefer.

Steve

PS - My beauty...

SEAT Leon FR

mackei23b - 5/8/08 at 09:16 PM

Hi there

Currently have a standard copper S and really think you should get one

I have had a number of new mini's and despite trying other cars have always gone back to the mini.

It has excellent acceleration, superior build quality, all the benefits of a BMW and great fun to drive!!

With regards to space, the mini has as much much space as any other small car and if space was an issue you wouldn't be considering a mini anyway.

The only critisism is the cost of fuel, tax and insurrance but again if you want a mini this is not an issue to you.

GET ONE!!!

Hellfire - 5/8/08 at 09:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mackei23b
all the benefits of a BMW...

Sory - just had to mention, oh hang on, another giggle coming on...

Steve

westf27 - 5/8/08 at 09:57 PM

thanks for all the input guys and sorry its caused a bit of a do in the blow job area.as always a nice balance of views to help to decide on the way forward...cheers

steve (the original and best)

mike smith1 - 6/8/08 at 08:14 AM

I've had a Cooper S just over a month now, great fun to drive, supercharger whine is addictive! Not fantastic on fuel but thats because i've got a lead right foot like most people onhere. I would recommend one Mike

mr henderson - 6/8/08 at 08:28 AM

As I said earlier, anyone who is interested in the turbo versus supercharger thing might like to have a look at what most manufacturers and tuners use when they want more power form an engine.

John

iank - 6/8/08 at 08:32 AM

All manufacturers and most tuners use whatever is currently fashionable and/or high profit margin. Business is business...

This has little to do with what is best in a particular application unfortunately.