gingerprince
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| posted on 4/4/12 at 07:42 PM |
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Ceiling Mould
So I have mould on my bedroom ceiling: -
Wondering what the most likely cause may be. I have recently noticed a hole in my roof felt: -
which needs sorting (presumably need a man to remove tiles and lay a new sheet?), but that's just at one extremity and the mold is the length of
the room. It (i.e. the draft it causes - haven't seen any evidence of water ingress) may explain why it's worse at that end?
I have some insulation in the attic - not much by modern standards and was thinking of getting extra fitted: -
The questions are really: -
What is the likely cause of this. Will extra insulation in the attic likely make this any better? worse? no different?
Is this just a case of "turn up the radiators and open the windows"?
Anything else?
Cheers.
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tompat3463
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| posted on 4/4/12 at 07:46 PM |
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my first guess would say check ya guttering
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gingerprince
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| posted on 4/4/12 at 07:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tompat3463
my first guess would say check ya guttering
That was mine a couple of years ago - had leaky guttering replaced, removed mould with bleach, decorated, sat back and smiled. Then watched as it
re-appeared this winter.
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nludkin
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| posted on 4/4/12 at 07:55 PM |
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It does look like the insulation is pushed right up to the end of the eaves? There is meant to be a slight gap to allow air to circulate in the
roofspace from what I remember. This might be allowing the damp to linger and therefore causing the mould?
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Irony
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| posted on 4/4/12 at 08:31 PM |
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Dunno what caused the damp but Wilkinsons do a Dettol Mould Remover that is literally amazing. Also I had free insulation provided by British Gas for
free. I am not on benefits or anything and me and the missus work fulltime so everyone should be eligiable
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van cleef
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| posted on 4/4/12 at 08:32 PM |
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Unlikely to be gutters at a guess without seeing the outside I would say you have a ventilation problem with the warm air rising mixing with cold and
causing condensation in the loft space. More insulation will help but you need to get the loft ventilated top and bottom of both sides of the roof
allowing warm air out the top whilst drawing cold air in the bottom.
What is the 100mm White flexy pipe for is it connected to anything?
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 4/4/12 at 08:41 PM |
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You have a cold bridge 
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nick205
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| posted on 4/4/12 at 09:23 PM |
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The first thing to do is move the insulation back a bit to let the air circulate through the roof space. This relies on the eaves being ventilated as
well - i.e. grilles or continuous venting under the eaves. Ideally 2 or 3 ridge vent tiles should be fitted as well so the warm moist air can rise
and escape drawing fresh cooler air in through the eaves.
Can't see from the photo, but does the window have a trickle vent fitted? If not its fairly simple and cheap to do and wll improve air
circulation and replacement in the room itself. Opening the window a little will also help, particularly at night when you're sleeping in
there. Leaving the bedroom door open may also help.
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gingerprince
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| posted on 4/4/12 at 09:29 PM |
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Cold bridge - presume you don't mean the Humber? Is that an expensive thing?
White pipe is just that, tumbler hose - attic is full of rubbish!
I will shuffle the insulation back a smidge. New guttering was fitted with comb vent thingies, I can see daylight when I look so presumably
that's good.
Don't have trickle vents, but will try the window open - it will lock slightly open. Seems to negate the cavity insulation I had done last year
though!
Going to get a hygrometer too, just to see what humidity in bedroom is.
Cheers.
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chris-g
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| posted on 4/4/12 at 10:07 PM |
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In an ideal world, a house would be surrounded in a continuous unbroken blanket of insulation. In reality this doesn't happen because we need
windows, doors, roofs and dividing walls. A cold bridge is as an area with high thermal conductivity, do a google search for more info. Without seeing
how the walls of house are constructed and how the roof it attached and sits on the walls it is not easy to give a definitive answer. My guess it that
if your walls have cavity insulation, that the insulation in the wall does not meet the insulation in the loft to form that continuous blankets. The
image in the following link demonstrates the idea. As mentioned earlier, ventilation from the eves to the roof space is important and the detail in
the image uses a tray to prove an air gap between the insulation and underside of the tiles.
http://www.monier.co.uk/uploads/pics/Kami-Eaves-Detail-CAD.gif
[Edited on 4/4/12 by chris-g]
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Dusty
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| posted on 5/4/12 at 12:13 AM |
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Your first picture shows a strip of mould along the wall to ceiling edge that is very narrow. This pattern suggests water running along the ceiling to
wall joint. Not damp penetration or condensation but dripping water in the loft which then tracks. The second picture shows liquid watermarks on the
gable end rafter against the wall and a seriously damaged tile batten seen through the hole in the felt. It appears from the picture that the rafter
is against the blockwork and this is unusual, a one to two inch gap usually being left to prevent damp creeping from block to rafter. Secondly there
is marking suggesting the rafter is getting a good soaking. The end of the batten going above the joist is distorted, discoloured and possibly
cracked. This is suggestive of well established dry rot, caused by frequent water penetration.
There is even a water mark on the big purlin in the third picture. Goodness knows where that has come from!
It's impossible to tell from your pics how the wet is penetrating this wall but the outside needs examining, particularly the condition of the
barge boards and the barge board to tile seal.
My advice is that this is way beyond a good DIY person and a competent builder or specialist firm like Rentokil should be brought in to do a serious
survey of the problems which should include an opinion of the construction/design of the roof. I hope I am exaggerating the problems as the photos
don't show the detail needed to make a proper assessment but you have little to loose by seeking the help I suggest and everything to gain.
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van cleef
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| posted on 5/4/12 at 08:06 AM |
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I'm a roofer based up in sunny Aberdeenshire.
To be honest I have seen worse staining than that caused due to condensation and to say that he timber has the starting signs of dry rot due to
frequent water ingress is being slightly over the top. I have seen dry rot bad enough too see whole roofs removed with the fungus climbing granite
structures and dry rot doesn't really need moisture to grow.
On a second look at your pictures at the wall , is the house terraced or is that wall the gable end?as if it is a gable I would be looking at the tile
verges.... is it pointed with cement or is it using a plastic dry fix verge system? to make sure water is not tracking back from there and finding the
lowest point, which is the bedroom ceiling and possibly is there any mould or staining above the window on the ingo?
Best thing to do is the next time it rains poke your hand through the felt and feel around for moisture and have good look around your loft, if there
isn't any sign of any leaks then I would start looking at a ventilation problem.
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Peteff
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| posted on 5/4/12 at 08:48 AM |
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I'd say the roof felt wants fixing but it isn't causing your problem. It looks like something has made it's way in through there
(scratches on the lath, probably Starlings) so get the outside looked at. The black stuff is ventilation (lack of), we get it round the window frame
and you have to kill the mould before you can do anything else. You can get biocides or bleach it but it always seems to reappear eventually, just
keep on top of it.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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kj
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| posted on 5/4/12 at 09:14 AM |
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Move the loft insulation back first, i bet the company who done your cavity insulation has not filled above the window and the cold will be hitting
the steel lintel where the rest of the wall is warm causing your damp.
Move your insulation back and give the cavity company call to carry out an inspection.
Think about it, think about it again and then do it.
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Dusty
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| posted on 5/4/12 at 11:25 AM |
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Impossible to make out the fine detail from three pics to give a serious diagnosis of the problem but there's enough there to worry me having
had dry rot in my roof. I had discolouration, distortion and cracking like crazy paving of the timber ends and the wood had become brittle. No white
mycelia or mushrooms visible but it was dry rot. I sincerely hope I am going over the top but I would still recommend you get a professional
inspection. You can then proceed to DIY solutions or getting the builders in, whichever is appropriate and know you are not leaving a problem which
will become structurally serious over a few years.
[Edited on 5/4/12 by Dusty]
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mad-butcher
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| posted on 5/4/12 at 01:22 PM |
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not that i know much about roofing but maybe i'm seeing something that ain't really there
[img]
 
Description
[/img]
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bigfoot4616
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| posted on 5/4/12 at 06:54 PM |
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thats the lug on the back of the tile hooked over the baton
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WARMSEAL-Bob
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| posted on 18/12/13 at 02:10 PM |
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POST REMOVED - SPAM
[Edited on 18-12-13 by Fozzie]
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loggyboy
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| posted on 18/12/13 at 02:17 PM |
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Reported
Mistral Motorsport
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dhutch
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| posted on 18/12/13 at 04:00 PM |
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I'm not a roofer, decorator, whatever, but from my dabbles in 70year old build poorly insulated and slightly dam ex-council houses in a climate
of rising energy costs, I would say that looks like condensation in the cold corner. Solved by insulating that corner better, increasing ventilation,
and or removing it with mould spray.
Student days when we just didn't heat it enough and dried our clothes on the radiators we just mould sprayed it all!
In my own house I have partially vaulted ceiling (with a sloping skeling section down one side of each front or back bedroom) and as soon as I
insulated the loft and cavities just condensed like mad, after the first winter I ended up ripping the sloping section out and insulating behind it
with 2*2inch boards before returning it and having it re plastered. Thats now fine, with a good bathroom fan, and occasional other ventilation.
In your case, I would just keep a check on ventilation, make sure the insulation goes up to that point, without blocking the ventilation to the attic
and carefully wipe the mould off with a cloth damp with bleach/mould spray, taking care not to get it on the wallpaper.
Hole in the roofing felt wants patching from the inside, but is a mis-nomer. The tiles should keep the rain out, the felts just there to stop the wind
blowing through the tiles and taking the rain/snow with it.
Daniel
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loggyboy
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| posted on 18/12/13 at 04:34 PM |
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Check the date - this was a bumped post by a spammer, no need to add to it really.
Mistral Motorsport
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dhutch
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| posted on 18/12/13 at 07:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Check the date - this was a bumped post by a spammer, no need to add to it really.
Ahh, nice.
Saw the spam but not the date. Why wasnt the spam post just removed and the post allowed to sink back into the bog?
Daniel
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WARMSEAL-Bob
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| posted on 18/12/13 at 11:16 PM |
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I'm a newcomer, never posted before and if I have broken any rules then I was totally unaware (of them) and apologise.
To explain further:
I answered the OP with information about his type of roof gained over 50 years - actually working on roofs myself, I am 72 years old and retired, and
classed disabled/blind. Officially I am classed has blind but have limited vision, with good and bad days. I did the work and enjoyed it, for this
reason I supplied the OP, and anyone else whose got roof problems similar to him - with what I thought was good advice. I finished by implying he can
spend £3000-00 on a new roof, meaning £3000.00 for a roofer to replace his tiles and underfelt, but how many Joe Public are aware that the alleged old
tiles they remove are resold and put-back-on someone elses roof!!!. I think this is unfair and underhand.
The company I worked for would have corrected all the fault pictured in the OP roof for a £1000-00. If the person who called me "a
spammer" knew this and also knew that the "Spray Foam boys" would charge the O.P. £2500.00 and maybe £3500 to rectify his roof, then
it needs to be said I gave the O.P. some really good money saving advice. The job I was recommending included a new waterproof barrier roof felt,
around 700 sq feet of 60mm Kingspan type fibreglass placed between the rafters, vents seen to, and all materials stapled-fixed into position using air
staple guns with inch staples, when finished it will last officially 25 years, but in practice more like 50 years.
So will the spammer/claimer tell us what he would advise and what he would call a fair price for this work. Having been the site manager for 30 years,
and undertaking work with teams of men, 6 to 20 men, on around 100 000 roofs, I think I'm the ideal man to advise this guy.
Over to you dhutch and loggy boy. PS I thought this was a LocostBuilders forum, and am now confused, has it seems to deal with mostly other topics?,
[Edited on 18/12/13 by WARMSEAL-Bob]
[Edited on 18/12/13 by WARMSEAL-Bob]
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dhutch
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| posted on 19/12/13 at 12:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by WARMSEAL-BobPS I thought this was a LocostBuilders forum, and am now confused, has it seems to deal with mostly
other topics?,
Its about building a kitcar, called the 'Locost' clue is in the site logo.
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WARMSEAL-Bob
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| posted on 19/12/13 at 08:51 AM |
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I thought it was a builders forum, called LoCostBuilders, Low Cost tradespeople, surely you must know that Google regurgitate old posts going back 5
years or more, I was searching for bitumen felt topics, not cars, so will not post again has my knowledge of car building is zilch.
Bob
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