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Author: Subject: Update, still spark, still fuel, R1 engine still not firing.
kurt

posted on 28/11/05 at 09:28 PM Reply With Quote
Update, still spark, still fuel, R1 engine still not firing.

Well, I've tried everything suggested and the bloody thing still won't fire! I've sorted the airbox so it is fitted properly to the airbox, put new plugs in, the only thing I'm reluctant to do is use Easystart. I've had the carbs off and there is no reason to suggest they're out of adjustment as they're clean as a whistle and show signs of anyone having tampered with them. There is no way to check the timing unless the thing is running, and it's not adjustable anyway.
I'm really running out of ideas, any help would be extremely gratefully received as I feel like throwing the towel in at the moment.

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ReMan

posted on 28/11/05 at 09:48 PM Reply With Quote
You know it makes sense!

Have you jumped it from a car battery? Rescued attachment 112.jpg
Rescued attachment 112.jpg






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zxrlocost

posted on 28/11/05 at 09:55 PM Reply With Quote
these engines are state of the art technology my engine had been standing for 6 months and fired up first time ticked over beautifully..
you shouldnt have to use easystart or anything like that its not some old morris minor engine..

I have read previous posts mate but no one has mentiond the side stand and clutch cut off??

I wouldnt count them out or I could be well behind and youve already done them..



chris

dont know if they even stop a spark or not

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zxrlocost

posted on 28/11/05 at 09:56 PM Reply With Quote
sorry your very first post says it all
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JoelP

posted on 28/11/05 at 10:02 PM Reply With Quote
do you have much experience of bike engines? I had one still in the bike and could barely start it!

any choke to fiddle with? have you tried dribbling fuel straight down the neck?

easy start isnt a bad idea, it is afterall only a nice flamable gas. Id try it myself once all else was exhausted. Then id also try borrowing a similar cdi to swap in.






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ReMan

posted on 28/11/05 at 10:02 PM Reply With Quote
Sorry to hear you still have trouble.
Whilst theres a hint of sarcasm in my easystart theory, I needed it to get the Blade engine going and that was in the summer.

easystart and jump leads....
Col

[Edited on 28/11/05 by ReMan]





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jambojeef

posted on 28/11/05 at 10:03 PM Reply With Quote
I dont know whether you've already covered this but how have you fed fuel to the carbs?

If its just gravity fed are you sure the float bowls are full?

My CBR1000 is a bit funny about its fuel delivery pressure and runs on about 2 ctlinders until it gets proper fuel pressure and then all 4 run...

Might be barking up the wrong tree but its worth a shot.

Also - are you sure that you have a spark? You're not, like, checking the spark by touching it against a bit of the chassis and in fact the engine has no earth or anything?

Ive probably shed no new light at all but just in case...

Geoff

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colibriman

posted on 28/11/05 at 10:04 PM Reply With Quote
are you using the choke?

maybe its just damn cold and needs less air...

Colin





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kurt

posted on 28/11/05 at 10:05 PM Reply With Quote
Yep, all the wiring to do with side stand cut out, clutch switch cut out are shorted out, engine is in neutral, kill switch is on, all ok or I wouldn't get a spark. Earth resistance from engine is 9 ohms on very cold day, and I've tested for a spark by earthing plug on cylinder head bolt, both sets of coils are producing sparks, so where to now? I think MK will be getting a call very soon, unless there is a miracle worker out there.
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kurt

posted on 28/11/05 at 10:07 PM Reply With Quote
Sorry, forgot to say, choke is on.
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jambojeef

posted on 28/11/05 at 10:12 PM Reply With Quote
The only other thing I can think of is that the battery you are using is a bit flat...

You'd still get a spark at atmospheric pressure but under compression you might not - it is a lovely freshly charged bike battery or car battery??

Geoff

[Edited on 28/11/05 by jambojeef]

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ReMan

posted on 28/11/05 at 10:12 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kurt
Earth resistance from engine is 9 ohms on very cold day, .


Where is this 9 ohms, there should not be 9 ohms in an earth line if the measuring equipment is accurate. 0.9 ohms maybe? please elabortate.....





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ReMan

posted on 28/11/05 at 10:12 PM Reply With Quote
And elaborate too





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kurt

posted on 28/11/05 at 10:32 PM Reply With Quote
Battery is a new bike battery for an R1 which spends it's life attached to an optimate if not being used to try to start the engine. The 9 ohms is from the engine block to the earth lead that runs back to the battery from the chassis. It was measured on a very cold day. Should I run another lead from the engine block to the chassis as well as the one from the starter motor mounting bolt in the engine casing which runs direct to the battery negative?
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zxrlocost

posted on 28/11/05 at 10:36 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
do you have much experience of bike engines? I had one still in the bike and could barely start it!

yes thanks, shame you should have heard it running before hand,this is what you get for cutting corners!

i was just trying to help after all he hasnt got it started yet so its no better or worse advice than anyone else has given.

he has already done them anyway I just wasnt certain what the cut of switches actually stopped in order to cause immobilisation...its nothing Ive really had to look into!

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colibriman

posted on 28/11/05 at 10:36 PM Reply With Quote
9 ohms does seem too high but the engine would turn over more slowly than normal as a symptom if it was struggling to connect and the earth cable might get warm - I assume its turning over quickly enough?





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ReMan

posted on 28/11/05 at 10:41 PM Reply With Quote
If it REALLY is 9 ohms then assuming the starter moter is a single wire from the relay and the engine/chassis is the earth to the battery then it would seriously limit the current to the starter, technically 12v/9ohm = 1.33 amps which would not turn the starter! So I suspect the 9 ohms is wrong , but it does need checking, its not going to help. Also check your meter by shorting the leads to check it reads 0 ohms.





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kurt

posted on 28/11/05 at 10:42 PM Reply With Quote
Yeah, no problem turning it over. It turns over and over and over and over etc. Even my wife says it sounds good and healthy!
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kurt

posted on 28/11/05 at 10:48 PM Reply With Quote
This 9 ohms sounds like something worth checking. I think I'll run another earth lead direct from the block the chassis and see what happens, so I'll sign off for now, will do lead tomorrow when I get in from work and will let you all know.

Cheers for now, Kurt.

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shortie

posted on 28/11/05 at 10:59 PM Reply With Quote
Make sure the correct amount of fuel is getting to the carbs by measuring the flow rate at the carb end, I had a problem exactly like you say which turned out to be a blocked fuel filter! changed it and all fine now.

Rich.

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Dusty

posted on 29/11/05 at 12:29 AM Reply With Quote
I apologise in advance for what may be a stupid sugestion (I know nothing about bike engines) but is it possible to swop plug leads 2,3 with 1,4 or the LT wires to the coils and thus be trying to fire on the wrong strokes. Can be done on car engines.
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ReMan

posted on 29/11/05 at 08:49 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dusty
I apologise in advance for what may be a stupid sugestion (I know nothing about bike engines) but is it possible to swop plug leads 2,3 with 1,4 or the LT wires to the coils and thus be trying to fire on the wrong strokes. Can be done on car engines.


No apology needed, that was my first suggestion on the original post, unfortunatly it did'nt work





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colibriman

posted on 29/11/05 at 09:04 AM Reply With Quote
quote:

Make sure the correct amount of fuel is getting to the carbs by measuring the flow rate at the carb end, I had a problem exactly like you say which turned out to be a blocked fuel filter! changed it and all fine now.




that a good point Rich...... too much fuel and it would kill a weak spark (caused by the possibly high resistance earth ?) not enough and it might be too lean to spark when its cold...........





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JoelP

posted on 29/11/05 at 09:30 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by zxrlocost
yes thanks, shame you should have heard it running before hand,this is what you get for cutting corners!

i was just trying to help after all he hasnt got it started yet so its no better or worse advice than anyone else has given.

he has already done them anyway I just wasnt certain what the cut of switches actually stopped in order to cause immobilisation...its nothing Ive really had to look into!


my fault for not replying with a quote, but i wasnt talking to you that was posted for the thread starter, so dont be offended.






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zxrlocost

posted on 29/11/05 at 11:12 AM Reply With Quote
I was only joking anyway
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