A1
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| posted on 22/9/09 at 11:56 AM |
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its an impreza though! it should have 300+ hp and be petrol!!
i know the racing diesels are doing okay, but even still diesels sound crap and smell awful. ever followed one down the road?
plus theyre more carcinogenic(?) than petrols. and who cares about mileage in cars like that? theyre about performance, not saving half a gallon of
fuel.
i just think subaru have made a huge mistake and i hope their sales reflect that. I mean, who likes the new one?
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flak monkey
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| posted on 22/9/09 at 12:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by A1
and who cares about mileage in cars like that? theyre about performance, not saving half a gallon of fuel.
This is the thing you see, performance wise, once rolling a modern diesel will trounce a petrol which has loads more power. The in gear performance is
extraordinary. 0-60 isnt so good though.
I say this without word of a lie. I followed an older (Mk2) Impreza STi WRX the other day, looked well sorted. Came onto a dual carrage way off a
roundabout and both gunned it and he by no means left me standing. Kept with him until I bottled it (I know where the cameras are!)
Thats with a measly 190bhp and 300lbft of torque in my Leon. What would he have had? 315bhp assuming it was std (didnt look it) And after all that
being silly I still averaged 49mpg on the run, I bet he was under 20mpg!
Mine doesn't sound bad either. If you can hear the engine over the turbo once rolling you are doing well!
As others have said, modern diesels really do shame all but the most highly tuned petrols in a hatchback.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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A1
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| posted on 22/9/09 at 08:04 PM |
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what car have you got? the mk2 wrxs are about 5. something to 60.
in my experience of imprezas/evos, not much keeps up.
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prawnabie
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| posted on 22/9/09 at 08:11 PM |
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Id say most the the home built stuff on here keeps up with subarus/evos lol.
My 1700 8v ohv locost will trounce a impreza in standard form.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 22/9/09 at 08:13 PM |
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Tweaked diesel Leon FR. 190bhp, 300lbft
0-60 is a poor reflection of true performance. Its the 30-50 and 50-70 times that really make a difference on the road. And this is usally where the
diesels win out even over performance petrols.
Seriously, you have to experience the torque rush on a sorted diesel to believe it. The only problem is changing gear fast enough.
Like I say he was certainly trying hard, and he didnt get away.
Any diesel with more oomph would have left him (BMW 123 M or something)
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 22/9/09 at 08:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
This is the thing you see, performance wise, once rolling a modern diesel will trounce a petrol which has loads more power. The in gear performance is
extraordinary. 0-60 isnt so good though.
The thing is it won't if you drive the petrol properly. Diesel enthusiasts tend to rave about in-gear performance and overtaking ability as
though changing gear in a petrol engined car was somehow beyond their abilities. That said, in the hands of the numpties that regularly attempt
excruciatingly slow overtakes because the thought of dropping a gear or two has never crossed their minds, a diesel will undoubtedly be quicker.
Turbo diesels feel fast to most people because of the "kick" you get as the turbo spools up. However IME they often aren't
as fast as they feel. Likewise powerful, large engined petrol cars often don't feel as quick as they really are, since they have such a linear
torque delivery, you get a push that just keeps going rather than a kick which is all over in seconds.
[Edited on 22/9/09 by MikeRJ]
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flak monkey
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| posted on 22/9/09 at 09:01 PM |
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I can, and do, drive both properly I assure you.
Watching the rate at which the speedo swings around is a good enough indication for me. 
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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phelpsa
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| posted on 23/9/09 at 02:09 PM |
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LOL at 190bhp diesel out accelerating a 315bhp Impreza.
Not gonna happen, simple physics
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flak monkey
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| posted on 23/9/09 at 02:28 PM |
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Dont start the power and torque debate again 
If anyone is in doubt you really should try one....
[Edited on 23/9/09 by flak monkey]
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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phelpsa
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| posted on 23/9/09 at 05:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Dont start the power and torque debate again
If anyone is in doubt you really should try one....
[Edited on 23/9/09 by flak monkey]
Torque is completely irrelevant... but we wont start that one again
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flak monkey
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| posted on 23/9/09 at 05:38 PM |
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OK, if you dont believe me I will quote some times. I know you still wont believe it, but you can have a look for yourself if you like. lol
The 30-70 time for a remapped FR TDI with my setup is 5.7 secs through gears.
Scooby WRX STi happens to also be .... 5.7 secs, again thats through gears.
30-50 in 3rd in the leon is 3.1 secs
30-50 in the Scooby is 3.3 secs in second
[Edited on 23/9/09 by flak monkey]
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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graememk
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| posted on 24/9/09 at 03:34 PM |
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oh another cock waving thred on locost builders, (no offence directed at David).
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phelpsa
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| posted on 24/9/09 at 03:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by graememk
oh another cock waving thred on locost builders, (no offence directed at David).
It's all tongue in cheek on here! At least I hope it is...
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flak monkey
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| posted on 24/9/09 at 05:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by graememk
oh another cock waving thred on locost builders, (no offence directed at David).
Lol I just never give in 
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Simon
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| posted on 24/9/09 at 11:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
0-60 is a poor reflection of true performance. Its the 30-50 and 50-70 times that really make a difference on the road. And this is usally where the
diesels win out even over performance petrols.
Unfortunately (as I have to stand up for diesel here) I have to agree, and it doesn't even apply to that new a diesel either.
Many years ago I had an 827 Vitesse, and was following a Rover 218 SDi (pre bubble shape). We both floored it at about the same time, and I only got
past him once we were doing silly speeds.
Who'd have thought a sporting Rover ( the first production car to lap the IoM TT course at more than 100mph) would struggle to overtake a weasel
that prob took 12 secs to get to 60
I'm toying with the idea of building a diesel bike! A diesel with a sequential box. Perfect. 3.5 secs to 60 and 130mpg
ATB
Simon
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phelpsa
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| posted on 25/9/09 at 09:34 AM |
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I have to agree that real world being able to put your foot down at any rpm and have a decent shove for a few seconds over a small speed range is
quite useful.
I drive a Fiat 500 1.4 16V everyday and i often wish we'd bought the diesel. Mated with the 6spd box it means you're changing gear all the
time around town to get any sort of power. However get it on the backroads and its just sweet, 4000-7000rpm it sings. Most of these diesels come on
boost at 1700rpm and its all over by 3500. Good for the old 30-50 test but no fun when driving 'properly'.
30-50 in second in an impreza is 'foot down, some lag, starts to build boost, comes on full boost at 4000rpm, a very short period of power, oh
crap that's 50'. It's caught up again by 70 because its used the power between 5000-7000rpm.
You can see where my passion lies I suppose :p Diesels are good for towing a petrol car to a place where you can use it properly
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Simon
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| posted on 25/9/09 at 08:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
Most of these diesels come on boost at 1700rpm and its all over by 3500.
It may well be, but bear in mind that the diesel diff ratio will be very low compared to a petrol - which goes some way to making up the difference in
engine speed - by using torque.
I have a 2.28 BMW 330d (yes 2.28) diff to go in toy car which, if the Karen Pender SD1 Vitesse figs are to be believed, means I'll get the
better part of 50mpg and silly performance without unnecessary thrashing.
Oh yeah, I test drove an Imprezza turbo wizzbang thingy about 10 years ago and have never been so underwhelmed with performance, let along pee poor
trim quality!
ATB
Simon
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phelpsa
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| posted on 26/9/09 at 12:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon
quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
Most of these diesels come on boost at 1700rpm and its all over by 3500.
It may well be, but bear in mind that the diesel diff ratio will be very low compared to a petrol - which goes some way to making up the difference in
engine speed - by using torque.
I have a 2.28 BMW 330d (yes 2.28) diff to go in toy car which, if the Karen Pender SD1 Vitesse figs are to be believed, means I'll get the
better part of 50mpg and silly performance without unnecessary thrashing.
Oh yeah, I test drove an Imprezza turbo wizzbang thingy about 10 years ago and have never been so underwhelmed with performance, let along pee poor
trim quality!
ATB
Simon
I know up until a couple of years ago they weren't everything they were cracked up to be, my dads old 2.0l WRX, with 220bhp, couldn't out
drag a V6 mondeo (his previous car). But the newer 2.5lt 280bhp STI is a pretty serious piece of kit. The extra capacity means more low down torque so
its driveable off boost and the better smaller turbo means less lag and better response.
My mum didnt like the old impreza as it was pretty difficult to drive and had to be kept 'on boost' but the STi has now been adopted as
hers Admittedly it's still a japanese mid range saloon and despite the leather, satvnav and fancy stereo it does feel a bit
'tinny', but £24k for a car than can carry 4 comfortably, do the shopping run and perform admirably at the nurburgring, you can't
really complain.
Off course im not biased at all in this debate
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Simon
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| posted on 26/9/09 at 08:05 PM |
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I'd rather have the Fiat 500 - seriously like them. If I have t buy wifey a new car, that's what she's having.
If you want proper performance, buy a bike
even a diesel
ATB
Simon
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